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Long post!!!
This is a personal question, but I would like to see your personal views as well.
If you make average 200k household of 3, with a 6 yrs old boy, would you live in OC or Brentwood, TN?
We can probably put 120k in saving a yr after paying off the $250k mortgage in the next 2-2.5 yrs. We live comfortably with 65-80k here.
Please help me fill out more of the pros and cons that I might miss, so I can make a better decision. Brentwood, TN (Williamson County = Best school district in the state and up top for country as well) Pros:
-<1% property taxes ($4k ish for a $650k house)
-Almost no state income (state income only apply to certain type of income not from regular salaries)
-Extremely low crime rate (I dont need to lock my car outside of the garage, at the markets and don't need to close my garage at night)
-Mild to Moderate traffic.
-Low competition for the business category I'm in (self employed)
-Average cost of living.
-Four beautiful seasons.
-Close to families and friends.
-Nice peoples, neighbors.
-All kinds of wild animal walk by the back yard (tuckeys, rabbits, deers, ducks, gooses, etc) Cons:
-Allergy seasons are beyond horrible (for all 3 in my family). We suffer 2 winter months and 3.5 spring months (half a yr)
-Nothing to do. This is true country living, but there is limited of fun activity you can do.
-Small, limited shopping malls for the wife (4 tiny malls within 1 hrs driving or 65 miles)
-Asian food that only non Asian would eat (Americanized Asian food that taste nothing like food in Little Saigon)
-7 hrs to the closest beach.
-7 hrs to the closest port for cruising.
-Fly back to visit my country would requires an extra $600 for plane ticket and an extra connection fly and wait time adding average 5 hrs to the trip (28hrs total) (Nashville airport is international airport but it has to fly to one of the other main airport before flying out of the US)
-Very hard to find technicians for my business (nail salon). It seems only Vietnamese wants to work as a nail tech.
Orange County, Irvine, and surrounding areas (prefer 30 mins driving to Little Saigon):
Pros:
- Nice weather year round.
- Low to mild allergy compared to Tennessee.
- Close to the beaches, Las Vegas, San Diego, nice national parks and mountains.
- Easy to find technicians to expand the business.
- Amazing Asian foods.
- Asian festivals and celebrations.
- Plenty of shopping for the wife.
- Plenty of fun things for the son.
- Some good school districts.
- Theme parks.
- Fly from LA back to my country is 6 hrs shorter and $600 cheaper.
- Cruises out of Long Beach. Cons:
- Extremely high home price. Selling my $650k mansion here can get a 1200 sf house the size of my oversized 3 car garage and kitchen in OC. But that is something we are willing to sacrifice (at least for the first few yrs until we expand our business and have a larger income to afford million+ houses...hopefully)
- Low crime, good school areas make the above even worse.
- Traffic is moderate to high.
- Higher cost of living (we will save less per yr if we make the same income in OC)
- Earthwake and wildfire might make home insurance costly.
- High rate state income taxes, property taxes.
- Far away from my parents, sister, nieces, cousins, friends.
Unlike most people with a job offer when they consider moving. I'm selling a $180k annual profit business to hopefully replicate the same success or better in a state away from the place that I have lived 24 yrs. It will take time for me to find a location to get a commercial lease and build a salon that is also close to the new home that is also in a good school district.
In total, my family would have about $750k cash to move to OC after selling the house and business. It will cost around 250k to build another salon and the rest ($450-500k) will be down payment toward the new house. We will try to buy a house that will leave us with the same or a tiny bit more mortgage debt than currently (250k mortgage left)
We run away from severed allergy season, the boring country life, the bad Asian food, the stress from an understaffed salon, but stable income, low cost living, safe area, top school district...To chase after the good Asian food, the fun life with many Asian activities and festivals, theme park, beaches, cruises, but somewhat uncertainty about future income, high cost of living, high taxes, home price, traffic. Would you move or stay?
I'm not sure my wife and I can make the same profit of 200k annually in CA, but I'm sure we can make at least $120k annually anywhere in the U.S. But that is still a big gap.
IMO find out what is most important to you. Money/security vs. things to do. It's a delicate balance, but you'll always be less happy with one vs. the other.
Unless you get a ton of time away from your business, I don't know what moving into the OC grind does to improve your quality of life (hint: probably not as much as you think right now).
IMO find out what is most important to you. Money/security vs. things to do. It's a delicate balance, but you'll always be less happy with one vs. the other.
Unless you get a ton of time away from your business, I don't know what moving into the OC grind does to improve your quality of life (hint: probably not as much as you think right now).
Thanks for your reply and opinions. I think moving into Nashville will make it worse. Nashville's Davidson school district is horrible. It doesn't help my business situation (hard to find technicians for the year round understaffed salon). The allergy is still the same. Nashville has higher crime rates, property taxes, too.
I guess it comes down to me gambling if we can replicate the same business success in CA. My wife and I have been there twice and both us loved it. We dream about strolling along Bolsa Little Saigon for some good Asian food, Long Beach summer weekend once in a while. I'm sure reality will kick in after the first year and we might get bored of all those things, but it will still be better than here in Brentwood. CA will give us more benefits long term for leisures (shorter and cheaper travel to our country, beaches, cruises within reach, etc) We go to the beach and cruise at least once a year.
Our free time is right in between a salary worker and a business owner and that is because both my wife and I manage the same tiny salon and an online retail store, and really only 1 of us needs to be there with the other on call when it gets too busy. I'm pretty sure even if we make way less say $120k we would still be doing ok in OC. Asian immigrants like us are not big spenders, we tend to save alot more of our money than American born folks. Every Asian friends of mine save about 50-60% of what they make no matter if they make $20k or $200k.
Long post!!!
This is a personal question, but I would like to see your personal views as well.
If you make average 200k household of 3, with a 6 yrs old boy, would you live in OC or Brentwood, TN?
We can probably put 120k in saving a yr after paying off the $250k mortgage in the next 2-2.5 yrs. We live comfortably with 65-80k here.
Please help me fill out more of the pros and cons that I might miss, so I can make a better decision. Brentwood, TN (Williamson County = Best school district in the state and up top for country as well) Pros:
-<1% property taxes ($4k ish for a $650k house)
-Almost no state income (state income only apply to certain type of income not from regular salaries)
-Extremely low crime rate (I dont need to lock my car outside of the garage, at the markets and don't need to close my garage at night)
-Mild to Moderate traffic.
-Low competition for the business category I'm in (self employed)
-Average cost of living.
-Four beautiful seasons.
-Close to families and friends.
-Nice peoples, neighbors.
-All kinds of wild animal walk by the back yard (tuckeys, rabbits, deers, ducks, gooses, etc) Cons:
-Allergy seasons are beyond horrible (for all 3 in my family). We suffer 2 winter months and 3.5 spring months (half a yr)
-Nothing to do. This is true country living, but there is limited of fun activity you can do.
-Small, limited shopping malls for the wife (4 tiny malls within 1 hrs driving or 65 miles)
-Asian food that only non Asian would eat (Americanized Asian food that taste nothing like food in Little Saigon)
-7 hrs to the closest beach.
-7 hrs to the closest port for cruising.
-Fly back to visit my country would requires an extra $600 for plane ticket and an extra connection fly and wait time adding average 5 hrs to the trip (28hrs total) (Nashville airport is international airport but it has to fly to one of the other main airport before flying out of the US)
-Very hard to find technicians for my business (nail salon). It seems only Vietnamese wants to work as a nail tech.
Orange County, Irvine, and surrounding areas (prefer 30 mins driving to Little Saigon):
Pros:
- Nice weather year round.
- Low to mild allergy compared to Tennessee.
- Close to the beaches, Las Vegas, San Diego, nice national parks and mountains.
- Easy to find technicians to expand the business.
- Amazing Asian foods.
- Asian festivals and celebrations.
- Plenty of shopping for the wife.
- Plenty of fun things for the son.
- Some good school districts.
- Theme parks.
- Fly from LA back to my country is 6 hrs shorter and $600 cheaper.
- Cruises out of Long Beach. Cons:
- Extremely high home price. Selling my $650k mansion here can get a 1200 sf house the size of my oversized 3 car garage and kitchen in OC. But that is something we are willing to sacrifice (at least for the first few yrs until we expand our business and have a larger income to afford million+ houses...hopefully)
- Low crime, good school areas make the above even worse.
- Traffic is moderate to high.
- Higher cost of living (we will save less per yr if we make the same income in OC)
- Earthwake and wildfire might make home insurance costly.
- High rate state income taxes, property taxes.
- Far away from my parents, sister, nieces, cousins, friends.
Unlike most people with a job offer when they consider moving. I'm selling a $180k annual profit business to hopefully replicate the same success or better in a state away from the place that I have lived 24 yrs. It will take time for me to find a location to get a commercial lease and build a salon that is also close to the new home that is also in a good school district.
In total, my family would have about $750k cash to move to OC after selling the house and business. It will cost around 250k to build another salon and the rest ($450-500k) will be down payment toward the new house. We will try to buy a house that will leave us with the same or a tiny bit more mortgage debt than currently (250k mortgage left)
We run away from severed allergy season, the boring country life, the bad Asian food, the stress from an understaffed salon, but stable income, low cost living, safe area, top school district...To chase after the good Asian food, the fun life with many Asian activities and festivals, theme park, beaches, cruises, but somewhat uncertainty about future income, high cost of living, high taxes, home price, traffic. Would you move or stay?
I'm not sure my wife and I can make the same profit of 200k annually in CA, but I'm sure we can make at least $120k annually anywhere in the U.S. But that is still a big gap.
If allergies bother you then the lousy air in SoCal could also be a major problem.
Check airnow.gov and see how often the air quality is in the Green and it will not be often.
It is in the yellow a lot and even worse. Now many feel yellow is not bad except for reals sensitive people. However if it is day after day it is a major problem. Kinda like having a major headache once in a blue moon. No big deal, but if virtually every day something is wrong. Being "bad", as is not good, almost every day is not good for anyone. Check it every day for several weeks and you will then have an idea of what you may have to deal with. Different than an allergy for sure, ... far worse for your health.
If you make average 200k household of 3, with a 6 yrs old boy, would you live in OC or Brentwood, TN?
There are other choices too. The Atlanta area has lots of Asian food and shopping. The cost of living is higher than TN but a lot lower than Orange County. The best schools are in the East Cobb, North Fulton or North Gwinnett areas.
Minneapolis has fabulous shopping and lots of Vietnamese food but most people will not like winter there. Maybe visit in summer or fall.
Sacramento is a lower cost California alternative. The summers are very hot but one can get a home in a 10/10 school district like Folsom in the 500k range. Also Sacramento is 18% Asian.
There are other choices too. The Atlanta area has lots of Asian food and shopping. The cost of living is higher than TN but a lot lower than Orange County. The best schools are in the East Cobb, North Fulton or North Gwinnett areas.
Minneapolis has fabulous shopping and lots of Vietnamese food but most people will not like winter there. Maybe visit in summer or fall.
Sacramento is a lower cost California alternative. The summers are very hot but one can get a home in a 10/10 school district like Folsom in the 500k range. Also Sacramento is 18% Asian.
Thanks for the infos. I know I won't be going north because of the cold/snow. I will look at Sacramento as well. A friend of mine also mentioned Houston and some cities in FL, too. I'll start doing research since the Asian community there is also huge. The high heat, recent hurricane/flood, a lot of toll roads are the major cons so far. Home price even cheaper than my current town, but 3%+ prop taxes in some areas.
I just moved from Long Beach to Huntsville, AL, and I would say that you should under no circumstances consider moving to California.
I am not that knowledgeable about business there, but there is a lot of competition in that line of work, and there are a lot of state regulations, taxes, permit, and employee costs that you should research. California is well known for not being a business friendly state. Also, The state is a ticking time bomb of problems. For example, the state has given very generous pension plans to state employees, and the number of employees has boomed in the last 10 years, adding up to a very large unfunded pension liability problem. This will mean ever higher taxes in the future. The state is trying to build a high speed train from LA to San Francisco which is already way behind schedule and billions over budget. The cost of this is draining transportation funds, which caused the state legislature to just raise the already very high gas and car registration taxes. The voters have recently passed propositions aimed at reducing the prison population, which have had the effect of lowering the punishment for many crimes. Lots of things that used to be felonies are now considered misdemeanors, including stealing anything less than $950. This has the effect of encouraging petty crimes because the police rarely make arrests for stolen bikes or shoplifting under that amount. Also, the number of homeless people is growing and having a negative impact on neighborhoods everywhere. If you have a package delivered, you can just about expect it to be stolen off your porch if you aren't around to get it. Vagrants prowl the neighborhoods at night, checking car doors and garage doors, and stealing anything that isn't nailed down, especially bicycles. People are rude, the traffic is horrific, property taxes are through the roof. I could go on and on. Yes, the weather is nice, and there is a lot to do, but a lot of the time it isn't worth trying to go to things because of the crowds and hassle of the traffic and parking. Add to all of this the fact that the Democrats have a super-majority in the state legislature, meaning they can pass any tax or stupid idea they have. They are actually kicking around the idea of free health care for everyone which will cost more than the entire current state budget. I would say that you should look down the road at where the state is going financially before you and your kids end up stuck there.
I just moved from Long Beach to Huntsville, AL, and I would say that you should under no circumstances consider moving to California.
I am not that knowledgeable about business there, but there is a lot of competition in that line of work, and there are a lot of state regulations, taxes, permit, and employee costs that you should research. California is well known for not being a business friendly state. Also, The state is a ticking time bomb of problems. For example, the state has given very generous pension plans to state employees, and the number of employees has boomed in the last 10 years, adding up to a very large unfunded pension liability problem. This will mean ever higher taxes in the future. The state is trying to build a high speed train from LA to San Francisco which is already way behind schedule and billions over budget. The cost of this is draining transportation funds, which caused the state legislature to just raise the already very high gas and car registration taxes. The voters have recently passed propositions aimed at reducing the prison population, which have had the effect of lowering the punishment for many crimes. Lots of things that used to be felonies are now considered misdemeanors, including stealing anything less than $950. This has the effect of encouraging petty crimes because the police rarely make arrests for stolen bikes or shoplifting under that amount. Also, the number of homeless people is growing and having a negative impact on neighborhoods everywhere. If you have a package delivered, you can just about expect it to be stolen off your porch if you aren't around to get it. Vagrants prowl the neighborhoods at night, checking car doors and garage doors, and stealing anything that isn't nailed down, especially bicycles. People are rude, the traffic is horrific, property taxes are through the roof. I could go on and on. Yes, the weather is nice, and there is a lot to do, but a lot of the time it isn't worth trying to go to things because of the crowds and hassle of the traffic and parking. Add to all of this the fact that the Democrats have a super-majority in the state legislature, meaning they can pass any tax or stupid idea they have. They are actually kicking around the idea of free health care for everyone which will cost more than the entire current state budget. I would say that you should look down the road at where the state is going financially before you and your kids end up stuck there.
Thanks for the infos. I'm doing research for Houston, TX right now as well. I'd love to live in CA though. I might just wait 2-3 more years and pay off my mortgage while waiting. Eventually I will be in CA!
I thought OC property tax is about the same as Williamson county in TN (1%). I see alot of gated communities around the school zones I'd like for my son to be in (Irvine, Newport Beach). Will that solve the crime problem? Income tax will be an extra $8k/yr for our income level.
I just found out one thing though. Food will be cheaper for us in CA vs here.
Obviously if you're comfortable moving to Huntsville, AL you have a very different outlook on state politics than the vast majority of people living in Southern California. The OP is clearly from Asia and maybe wants to be around people that have a similar background, culture and values that I don't think he is getting in Tennessee.
You are correct! I'm not deciding to move to CA or any other state based on political reasons. I've been in TN since '95. The high income my wife and I make here doesn't make us happy. We are willing to sacrifice some of the things we think are less important to us to trade for other things we value more (at least at this time in life). Right now I'm just asking questions and trying to research to find out the balance of the trade off. I want to find out exactly what my family will have to sacrifice for the gains we think we are getting in CA.
The 50% more expensive cost of living in CA vs here only apply to American born and does not fully apply to us. Everyone's opinion is welcome, but I will filter out the things that don't apply to us. There are things that will be cheaper for us in CA vs here that if you first look at you might disagree such as dental, doctor visits (non hospitalized), food, and a lot of other social services like tax preparation, legal services for our business. Any service that you can find a Vietnamese office around the Little Saigon area is guaranteed to be cheaper than in Brentwood and Franklin, TN (our home and business). My family eat 70% Asian food such as rice and Asian vegies that you can't find in Kroger or American market. The 2 tiny Asian market across town here are expensive. In CA on the other hand Asian food are dirt cheap. Even Asian restaurants there have way lower price and good food vs the costly Americanized Asian restaurant here.
My 6 yrs old son only speak English, while I speak both Eng and Vietnamese. I'd like for him to at least speak some Vietnamese when he visits grandma/grandpa in VN. The VN TV channels and VN magazines in OC will help. They even have Vietnamese class in school! Unlike here.
And finally if things go bad we can live on a 10lb bag of rice and $50 worth of meat/vegie for a full month no problem. My American friends told me that's not really eating, but that's how we eat so we can't really help it. There is nothing wrong with him being Americanized growing up, but I think speaking 2 languages and learning about other cultures is better.
And the last thing is leisure. While my friends like to hang out at a local bar, a club, etc and I do that occasionally with them. But deep down there is nothing more fun than trolling an Asian night market to get all the street foods I've been craving for over 20 years while watching the singers, comedians perform live! And then there are the beautiful beaches, the theme parks, the cruises, the unexplored state parks and 4 hrs away from Las Vegas! Just the thought of those things would make me want to move so bad. I don't care if we make a little less money or live on a bit tighter budget as long as it's not the level of poverty of poor people in Vietnam.
In the end, I think whether you should move and how happy you will be comes down to how successful your business is. Garden Grove & Westminster has a giant Vietnamese population so salons are a dime a dozen. What makes you think yours will be able to be the superior one?
That part I know! I've been to OC before. I agree with you most of the nail salons in that area are the cheap type of salon run by first generation immigrants (such as my mom) who don't know state regulations, board of cosmetology regulations, etc. But there are the upcoming salons run by 2nd generation Asian American, too. I consider myself in that category.
Yes, there are big differences in the way my wife and I run our salon vs the typical nail salons you've been to. And if we don't make the same profit with 1 salon we will just have to open more. The risk of being self employ is the income. Who can guarantee my current salon here can make the same income next year? Again who can guarantee the $200k new job offer that people accept to move to CA last more than 2-3 years unless there is a contract. The point is I will have to adapt staying or moving. My family will have to adjust based on the decision I make about moving or staying. And right now I am doing research to minimize the risks.
As I mentioned in the original post we have a salon and an online retail business. The online retail business can be relocated to anywhere in the US and my profit would probably be the same minus the difference of higher taxes. So we are not entirely rely on the salon when we move.
Here are some pictures I attached. You tell me if it's a typical salon you see in OC.
I appreciate your inputs to help me make a better decisions though!
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