Day trip to OC: photos (Garden Grove, Irvine: fit in, crime rates, how much)

[vegaspilgrim]

I took a trip today down to Orange County, seeing various locations. Since I have so many pictures, I'm posting this as a separate thread, but I'll post a link from the photos sticky thread as well.

Harbor Blvd, Costa Mesa:











































Newport Beach:











Laguna Beach:















Dana Point:











San Clemente:









San Juan Capistrano:















Mission Viejo:













Irvine:

[EscapeCalifornia]

Yep, that's Harbor Blvd. I eat at that Pho' 99 or Daphne's a couple times a month. Did you get any pictures of the illegals milling around and chasing down cars around in front of Home Depot at MacArthur?

[A Blue Window]

Custom built burgers, lol

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

Yep, that's Harbor Blvd. I eat at that Pho' 99 or Daphne's a couple times a month. Did you get any pictures of the illegals milling around and chasing down cars around in front of Home Depot at MacArthur?

No, maybe I'll catch that next time. Then again if I want to see illegals all I have to do is step outside my front door...

[vegaspilgrim]

A few comments:

I was impressed. I've been to various places in the county before (and yes, I focussed mainly on the southern part of the county), but had left thinking it wasn't anything so great. This time I changed my mind. It's not that what southern OC offers simply cannot be found anywhere else (although show me another Dana Point...), it's normal suburbia, more or less, but executed very well. Suburbia on STEROIDS is the probably the best description I can think of. At night, not featured in my pictures, I went to the "District at Tustin Legacy" outdoor mall. I'm not a mall person, but I was definitely impressed. Just the valet parking area alone looked like it could fit in Las Vegas. I'd rather go to Tustin than to the Grove, if you ask me. Another really cool one that I didn't have a chance to take a picture was the "Triangle" in Costa Mesa.

Mission Viejo is quite possibly one of the most beautiful developments (cities?) I've ever seen. The actual homes there were dated and nothing remarkable for the most part, but the way the community was designed with the landscaping and everything, the really "woodsy" feel was just incredible. Interestingly, I'm from Aurora, CO (eastern suburb of Denver), where there's a Mission Viejo neighborhood that was built by the same developer. Other than a few common street names (Marguerite Pkwy, Alicia Pkwy) and a similar style of brick used for some of the subdivision entrances, the two have nothing in common. The one in Aurora is middle to lower-middle class 1 square mile neighborhood, the one in California is a full blown city and much, much nicer. That same developer also is (in)famous for building Highlands Ranch, a southern suburb of Denver where a lot of Californians have moved to over the years. Highlands Ranch is sort of along the lines of a Mission Viejo in terms of how it's late out, but the one in southern OC is much, much more attractive. Other than the fact that both are huge, sprawled out planned communities, I don't really see the connection. It's kind of interesting, living in the "shadow" of California my whole life (until now, I'm going to USC for a brief one year program), seeing where it all started.

Please don't think I'm picking on you, EscapeCA, because there have been a handful of people just in the last few weeks and at least a dozen over the last year who have gone on the Denver forums saying they want to "escape" Orange County and move to the suburbs of Denver instead. I've also seen this on the Phoenix forums (especially with re to Scottsdale). I can fully understand why one would make this move-- financially, it makes sense if you can't afford to buy a house and live the lifestyle you desire in OC. I can see why someone might want a change of scenery, a different climate, trading the beach for the mountains, etc, but I just don't get what you guys are trying to "escape." Southern OC not only one of the nicest places to live in the greater LA metro area, it's one of the nicest suburbs in the whole nation. Mission Viejo in particular has one of the lowest crime rates of any city that size in the US. The level of physical attractiveness of some of the commercial developments I saw in Irvine and Tustin blew me away. I find it hard to believe that the people I read about on the forums are really "escaping" OC-- perhaps they are looking for an alternative, more affordable version of OC.

I can see how the northern part of the county is less attractive. Somewhat embarrassing, but I kind of got lost trying to find a Ralphs and get back home last night and somehow ended up in Garden Grove. The cops had the entire street blocked off with a DUI check point. WTH? I've never seen that in my life. I have to be treated like a criminal, guilty until proven innocent, even though I didn't even have a drop to drink? I could see how GG wasn't very attractive (although it's still better than where I'm living right by USC). I followed cue with a couple cars in front, flipped a U (the road, I think it was Harbor Blvd, was backed up for at least a 1/4 mile) and hit the 22. I can see how people who live in northern OC want out for something nicer. I just don't think "escape" is a verb that comes to mind when I think of southern OC.

[EscapeCalifornia]

I don't live in South OC. I live in Costa Mesa, about 1.5 miles east of the Marukai market you showed. Its too crowded for me. Traffic is inescapable. The police helicopter circles all night and I don't even live in the bad part of town. The housing stock is 30+ years old unless you have the bucks to scrape something and build a McMansion but you're still not in that great of an area. Areas that used to be nice, middle class, safe areas, with good schools have turned into Tijuana, driving up the prices in areas that are still nice.

South OC is nice, but most of the jobs are north of there which leads to long commutes. It also not cheap. Anything comparable to a $250-300k house in Highlands Ranch is well north of $500k here unless you go way the hell out into the Inland Empire and spend your entire life on the freeway and putting what's left of your disposable income into the tank.

When I go to Denver, I'm amazed at how much less crowded everything is. I've looked at population densities and the Denver suburbs are about half as dense as OC. That not only makes a big difference on the freeways but also in restaurants, malls, Costco, and any other public place. For better or worse, I think of Highlands Ranch as South OC lite. It has a lot of what I do like about south county but without many of the things I dislike. I think HR is probably what south OC was 25 years ago and I'm OK with that.

Everyone I know personally who's moved from OC to the Front Range loves it in Colorado. Even when you factor out the cost of housing in OC (either because they bought a long time ago or have enough money that it doesn't matter) they're still happy with their decision to leave OC. The feeling among those who have left or are wanting to leave is that OC and the rest of CA has jumped the shark and its all downhill from here in terms of quality of life.

[vegaspilgrim]

I thought Costa Mesa was considered south OC? I guess not. In terms of the Tijuanification, there is no guarantee that couldn't happen next in Denver, as certain sectors of town are already like that (ie-- that Federal Blvd photo tour I posted a week ago). I went into the Target in Costa Mesa in one of those shopping centers I pictured and I did notice quite a few Spanish speaking people there, just like everywhere else in LA-- or Phoenix. Still, your neck of the woods there looks awfully good compared to the neighborhood I'm living in right now. Here, over the summer I got a police beat email almost every week, sometimes every few days about a new armed robbery of a pedestrian (usually USC students), some of them were right where I live and just a few blocks away. Every single building here has bars on the windows. When you exit I-10 onto the Vermont offramp, the first thing you see is garbage strewn all over the side of the road. If you want to talk Tijuanification, there's guys who push hand held carts all day long up and down the streets selling everything from ice cream bars to fruit to tacos. Not to mention those "roach coaches" that park on the side of the road selling tacos all day and night long. I also hear helicopters flying directly overhead almost every day. Just last week the police had Vermont closed off with helicopters flying everywhere, apparently there was a shooting at a bank on Crenshaw and the suspect got away. Once you go east of the 110, it looks like you're in the pits of the earth. Point is... your neck of the woods looks like paradise compared to here.

I understand what you're saying though. A few months ago, you may or may not remember I briefly researched the possibility of living in OC after graduation, as all the major accounting firms have OC offices. The thought briefly popped into my mind as I was exploring yesterday. Unfortunately, from what I learned it sounds like even if the office is based in Irvine or Costa Mesa I'd still be driving around all over the place and probably be sent to LA anyway on assignments, as auditors spend most of their time at the client's workplace. I figure it just plain isn't worth living anywhere in the greater LA metro area if your job is the kind of thing where you have to drive around everywhere and you don't have a fixed workplace you can plan your life around. There are some major jobs in south OC though, for example, Capital Group Companies, a mutual fund management company, recently moved their accounting office to a brand new building in Irvine. I'm not really interested in that line of work though. There are ways to make living and working in south OC happen if that truly is your hopes and dreams, the only question is to what sacrifice are you willing to go? I've also done the math and after living here just a few months, I see what you get living in LA, and I think it sucks. The problem with OC is that it's still a suburb of LA. That's why I'm telling the recruiters I want to work in their Denver office. But at the same time I can see how parts of Orange County are NICE.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Well going to USC, you're definitely in the heart of the ghetto. No doubt about it. OC's worst is better than what you've got up there but there's still some pretty seedy parts.

I know Denver's got its rough parts and that's how it used to be here but anyone who's lived here a long time has seen the rough parts get bigger. OC is populated by a lot of people who moved down here in the 60's to get away from the high cost, overcrowding, and overall decay in LA. The problem is LA's problems seem to keep creeping south. There's an old saying out here that if you want to know what OC's going to be in 10 years, look at LA today. That's probably why you see so many people from OC moving out of California to places like Denver or Colorado Springs.

I don't consider Costa Mesa to be south OC. More central I guess. To me, south OC is Irvine on down where things are master planned and beige, but also safe, clean, and relatively new. If you went into the Target on Harbor and Baker, that's a pretty nice one. I go there even though the one on Bristol is closer, REALLY looks like Tijuana, complete with push carts. But even at the Home Depot on Harbor I had one of those "its time to leave the state" moments when the cashier gave me my total in Spanish.

[missionhome]

Are Denver's suburb cities really white? Denver itself is 34% Hispanic with 21% speaking Spanish as their first language and Orange County is 32% Hispanic with 25% speaking Spanish first. I don't see how moving there escapes Hispanics (which I never understood why people find them so annoying) and people speaking Spanish unless you stay in the suburbs, but the Hispanic population will grow there just like it did in OC. Are the suburbs really white in Denver?

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by missionhome

Are Denver's suburb cities really white? Denver itself is 34% Hispanic with 21% speaking Spanish as their first language and Orange County is 32% Hispanic with 25% speaking Spanish first. I don't see how moving there escapes Hispanics (which I never understood why people find them so annoying) and people speaking Spanish unless you stay in the suburbs, but the Hispanic population will grow there just like it did in OC. Are the suburbs really white in Denver?

Yes, for the most part. The funny thing about Denver's Hispanic population is that it looks big on paper but its a lot harder to find than it is in OC. The City and County of Denver is itself only about 1/5 of the entire metro area. So you're comparing 34% of 20% in Denver to 32% of all of OC.