The Truth about California from a former west coast Girl... (Fresno: construction, university)

[speedingwolf]

I live in Foothill Ranch, CA and there are many birds here in the morning. I can see bunnies once awhile as well. My mother lives in Westminister, CA and there are birds and i saw a hawk one time. I used to live in Bellevue, WA for 15 years and got tired of the rain and the traffic jam. Have you tried to commute on 405 during rush hours from Bellevue to Renton? Then not to mention allergies developed after 5-10 years. So, living in OC is better than in WA or other places? That is one's perception and personal experience. Costs of living in S.CA is more than WA but lesser than in downtown NY? I don't know. Do your own research and don't listen to people here 100% to help you with your decision. Make sure you have a good job offer before you relocate here or anywhere else.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

Its probably true that some areas of socal have improved, but the IE, especially the Riverside area, seems to collect everyones smog. I'd tell ANYONE who has breathing issues or ashma to avoid it. Along with visiting to see how you like the area, you should come with the people who will live with you, kids, parents etc. And come in the mid summer not mid winter. See if you can manage the smog or not. The very first thing I noticed when I got away was being able to fully breathe and no ichy eyes. Long ago my eye doctor denied me contacts due to that problem.

Yes, the smog is definitely not as bad as it used to be in SoCal, but it is still really bad in the IE. If the progress in cleaing up the air continues (which seems very likely), then maybe the air quality in the IE will become a non-issue. I definitely agree, people should visit there in July to experience the heat and smog, not January, when the air is usually clean and the weather mild.

I do disagree with you somewhat, that even if smog is not a big deal to some people personally, it still affects their health. Just because someone doesn't suffer any obvious symptoms of bad air, doesn't mean it isn't affecting their health negatively. I was a little annoyed when one particular poster made it seem like air pollution in SoCal is no longer a problem, which is definitely not the case (with that attitude that "California is wonderful, we have no problems, lalalalala.." yeah right).

I personally wouldn't want to live in the IE even if smog were not an issue. I don't like the endless, characterless suburban sprawl of the place. But cleaner air would obviously make it more desireable.

I agree you really need to do your research when you visit a place, as well as visit at least several times during different times of year to get the 'vibe' of a place.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Morphous01

Yea, this is true, however I would submit that there was another peak in the mid 80's.

Good point. I think this is an instance where it kind of shows that it takes time for an area to show signs of decline. On the surface, things can still look good for quite a few years before the signs of decline show up. And decline doesn't always go in a straight line. It's more like a wavy downward trend on a chart. The short term ups and downs make it easier for people to live in denial about the long term trend.

Unfortunately, I think CA is definitely in decline now, and has shown plenty of outward signs of it since the early 1990s.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

For example, if you don't need to live in a major metro area like LA, San Diego, or the SF Bay Area, you can find much lower housing costs. And once you get out of those areas, the politics tend to be a bit more conservative, the traffic is lighter, the crime rates tend to be lower, and the cost of living drops some. The laws and regulations tend to be the same, as do the state taxes though.

California outside the major metro areas is not very appealing to many. Places like Fresno, Bakersfield, etc, STILL have high housing costs/costs of living relative to other similar type areas outside the state (Phoenix, Las Vegas, Tucson, etc). And those out of state cities generally have more to offer in terms of arts, culture, etc.

The politics may be more conservative outside the major metro areas, but the state is dominated by the major metro areas, and thus, the liberal politics.

Interestingly enough, I find the conservatives in state government tend to be very conservative, and the liberals very liberal. I find this very discouraging as we really need more people in the middle.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Donn2390

You completely missed my point. I was talking about the ability to afford property..! The prices were much lower, but so were the wages, so,...no difference.

I don't think this is true at all. Home prices as a multiple of incomes have skyrocketed, esp. in CA. Even the lower prices of the last year or two and the low interest rates don't really bring home prices in line with incomes in CA, especially somewhere like O.C.

The era of insane lending began gradually, in the late 1970s. The huge correction in home prices in the last few years has not made up for over 25 years of excess lending and borrowing.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Yes, the smog is definitely not as bad as it used to be in SoCal, but it is still really bad in the IE. If the progress in cleaing up the air continues (which seems very likely), then maybe the air quality in the IE will become a non-issue. I definitely agree, people should visit there in July to experience the heat and smog, not January, when the air is usually clean and the weather mild.

I do disagree with you somewhat, that even if smog is not a big deal to some people personally, it still affects their health. Just because someone doesn't suffer any obvious symptoms of bad air, doesn't mean it isn't affecting their health negatively. I was a little annoyed when one particular poster made it seem like air pollution in SoCal is no longer a problem, which is definitely not the case (with that attitude that "California is wonderful, we have no problems, lalalalala.." yeah right).

I personally wouldn't want to live in the IE even if smog were not an issue. I don't like the endless, characterless suburban sprawl of the place. But cleaner air would obviously make it more desireable.

I agree you really need to do your research when you visit a place, as well as visit at least several times during different times of year to get the 'vibe' of a place.

I don't think smog will ever be an non-issue in the IE. Even if smog is reduced in other areas, it still comes together there and doesn't have anywhere to go. The only time you can't see the haze is the middle of winter, and when its bad in the summer you can't see the hills.

When I first moved there there was spaces between Riverside and Corona and Moreno Valley was a little place called Sunnymead. Perris was a small town as were the other desert towns with an hour of empty drive between them. It is really sad that it got turned into one endless line of houses and strip malls with a few shopping centers inbetween. Its really not accurate to say that Riverside has a population of over 300k, since it is next to Corona and Jurupa and Moreno Valley and you have to take the whole connected area and give a population figure to get a true idea of the place.

The thing with a new place is to visit when its at its worse, at least for you. For someone from socal, for Cushing it would be winter. The summer so far is about as miserable as Riverside but its not such a big difference. For Riverside hands down that is July/August. On a weekday.

Not sure if you misread me or not but I do have concern over the damage even if smog doesn't seem to outwardly bother people. It is still as damaging, especially to kids. I wouldn't bring children into the area. Adults should know what it does, but they have a choice.

Agree about the California is great, ignore these people talk. If your used to smog, then maybe you don't notice. But leave and come back and you can't possibly miss it. I suppose if you come from one of the decaying places somewhere else socal might look pretty good but for someone who knew what it was its not the same place at all.

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

California outside the major metro areas is not very appealing to many. Places like Fresno, Bakersfield, etc, STILL have high housing costs/costs of living relative to other similar type areas outside the state (Phoenix, Las Vegas, Tucson, etc).

Actually no.

Central Valley real estate is now basically the same median price or lower than your examples.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

California outside the major metro areas is not very appealing to many. Places like Fresno, Bakersfield, etc, STILL have high housing costs/costs of living relative to other similar type areas outside the state (Phoenix, Las Vegas, Tucson, etc). And those out of state cities generally have more to offer in terms of arts, culture, etc.

It's all a matter of opinion I guess. Sacramento, Fresno, and Bakersfield aren't for everyone, but neither is Phoenix, Vegas, and Tuscon. The advantage being outside the CA metro areas (especially in NorCal) is that it's cheaper, a slower pace, and you can at least be within driving distance of the culture-rich metro areas. Having grown up in the Bay Area, I can understand the tendency to look down on the areas outside of the major metro areas though. It's common to see unfavorable attitudes towards places like Sacramento and Fresno. But up until a decade ago, you used to see the same unfavorable attitudes towards the places you mentioned as well until the real estate boom made them popular destinations.

I think with the market correction, there are deals to be had in many areas outside of the metro areas now. There's a chance it might be a little more expensive than some of the metro areas in Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona, but I sort of doubt it now. I've been finding good homes in the low-mid 300k range in places like Roseville - a very nice suburb of Sacramento with highly rated schools and nice amenities. It's near a lake, 20 miles from downtown Sacramento, and about 2 hours from the Bay Area (at least that's how long it's taken us on weekends), and 2 hours from Lake Tahoe. Deals are out there. But I think some have just become jaded and want out of the state entirely, thinking they'll be happier elsewhere. I can understand that. It happened to us. I'm just trying to tell people that the grass isn't always greener just because you leave the state. And it can be greener by moving somewhere else within the state. As always, make a list of priorities, do tons of research, and try to remain objective with every area you're considering.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

I think with the market correction, there are deals to be had in many areas outside of the metro areas now. There's a chance it might be a little more expensive than some of the metro areas in Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona, but I sort of doubt it now. I've been finding good homes in the low-mid 300k range in places like Roseville - a very nice suburb of Sacramento with highly rated schools and nice amenities. It's near a lake, 20 miles from downtown Sacramento, and about 2 hours from the Bay Area (at least that's how long it's taken us on weekends), and 2 hours from Lake Tahoe. Deals are out there. But I think some have just become jaded and want out of the state entirely, thinking they'll be happier elsewhere. I can understand that. It happened to us. I'm just trying to tell people that the grass isn't always greener just because you leave the state. And it can be greener by moving somewhere else within the state. As always, make a list of priorities, do tons of research, and try to remain objective with every area you're considering.

Do you mean to say that the fescue isn't more verdant on the other side of the barrier? How can that be?

Unfortunately, while moving elsewhere in the state may result in lower costs to a degree, they can't begin to compare to the savings to be found moving elsewhere where the topography, weather and society appeal to us.

More's the pity!

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

It's all a matter of opinion I guess. Sacramento, Fresno, and Bakersfield aren't for everyone, but neither is Phoenix, Vegas, and Tuscon. The advantage being outside the CA metro areas (especially in NorCal) is that it's cheaper, a slower pace, and you can at least be within driving distance of the culture-rich metro areas. Having grown up in the Bay Area, I can understand the tendency to look down on the areas outside of the major metro areas though. It's common to see unfavorable attitudes towards places like Sacramento and Fresno. But up until a decade ago, you used to see the same unfavorable attitudes towards the places you mentioned as well until the real estate boom made them popular destinations.

I think with the market correction, there are deals to be had in many areas outside of the metro areas now. There's a chance it might be a little more expensive than some of the metro areas in Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona, but I sort of doubt it now. I've been finding good homes in the low-mid 300k range in places like Roseville - a very nice suburb of Sacramento with highly rated schools and nice amenities. It's near a lake, 20 miles from downtown Sacramento, and about 2 hours from the Bay Area (at least that's how long it's taken us on weekends), and 2 hours from Lake Tahoe. Deals are out there. But I think some have just become jaded and want out of the state entirely, thinking they'll be happier elsewhere. I can understand that. It happened to us. I'm just trying to tell people that the grass isn't always greener just because you leave the state. And it can be greener by moving somewhere else within the state. As always, make a list of priorities, do tons of research, and try to remain objective with every area you're considering.

Good posting, and very accurate. A lot of folks underestimate the peripheral cost of other areas, such as the high utility cost, property taxes and/or higher insurance cost. California is still a bit expensive, but the cost difference between here and a lot of other areas has certainly narrowed.