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I've bolded the comments I am choosing to respond to. The responses will be in order from top to bottom:
1. You didn't define "crowded" nor "awful lot of crime". When I think crowded, I think of Disney on a summer weekend afternoon. I think of NYC streets. You can easily avoid crowding throughout most of California. Now, if you want to go somewhere void of civilization for hundreds of miles around, you're going to have trouble. Though the Central Coast has some of this. And crime? Many of the SAFEST communiites in the entire country are in California. So are some of the most dangerous. Depends on where you're at. It's a terribly inaccurate overgeneralization to say what was said in the post above.
2. This is a great mischaracterization as well. In the overwhelming majority of the state-and where large population centers are-air pollution is of ZERO significance in day to day life. Zero. Only in the far inland areas of L.A. like San Bernadino and Riverside is it the least bit likely that you'll have some days in the summer when this is the case. Otherwise it is NEVER an issue impacting health or quality of ;life. When you look over the horizon and visibility is diminished, it is NOT air pollution you are seeing. It is a partial fog which is a result of the marine layer which is a naturally occuring phenomenon in California. Sure, there is pollution in the air-as there is in all metropolitan areas-but that's not what you're seeing.
3. Bull****. It MAY happen in the absolute worst traffic zone at the absolute worst time of day when there is a wreck. Otherwise this is completely false.
4. This does not apply to everywhere by any means. There are parts where this may be true. But there are many parts where you have large chunks of mileage between bad areas.
5. You don't need to be rich to live in these areas. I make a little less than 50k and do it with no problem. I do have to rent and really need a roommate, but that's fine by me. I could afford to get a 1-bedroom if I so desired.
I can respond to some of these issues:
1. Try lving in almost any other state outside of downtowns and you will discern why people from other places consider Orange CouUnty crowded. Look out the window of an airplane over OC. You will see that it is pretty much nothing but buildings and roads. It is a crammed packed place where everyone is always in a hurry and harried to get to their next destination. The FBI lists of the "safest" communiteis are defined by the size of each town. Thousands of small places that do not appear on the list have zero crime or near zero. Further, the fact that crime occur six blocks away accross an invisible city divider line genrally des nto make anyone feel much safer. Thus, while Irvine may be the safest city of its size, that "safety" is relative since there are higher crime areas only blocks away. Irvine abuts Santa Ana for exampl and people love to carry on about what a dangerous place Santa Ana is. So while Orange county is a lot safer than say San Jose, or Detroit. It is probably not safer than Hell Michigan, or Cave City Kentucky for example (I did not bother to look these places statistic up, just picked some random small places that probably have little or no crime). The point is that if you get outside of the crowded congested Orange COunty area, there are thousands of places with space and little or no crime not only in a concentrated area but for miles and imiles of saftey and space.
2. She is talking about Orange County, not the entire state. there are warnings on television during the summer telling residents to avoid going outside and not to exercise due to smog conditions. When I am told to stay inside or at least avaoid exercise, to me that is a serious health impact. On the weekends, the smog smudge moves to the beaches. During the week is stays more inland where the freeways are. It is certianly there, and it seems odd to say that breahting that crud is not a health concern. You can see the brown smudge in the sky when you come into Orange County in an airplane or from the mountains. Yes Riverside and San Bernardino are generally worse, but there is a serious smog problem for a good part of the year in Orange County. The partial haze that you are talking about is what traps the pooution in place and forms smog. The word smog comes from the combination of air pollution with fog or haze. Studies have shown the kids who grow up in LA, OC and the inland empire have reduced lung capacity compared to people who grow up in say Iowa. Part of that may be attributable to less exercise, but part is probably caused by smog.
3. This is an exaggeration. I do not know of anywhere that it takes 2-3 hours to go ten miles. but it does often take 2 hours to go from Santa Ana to LA. That is 37 miles. I suppose it could take 3 hours to go 10 miles on the 91 Eastbound on a Friday, especially before a holiday weekend, but even there I am not sure it is that bad. Her point however is that traffic is horrible. She is correct. It is horible. It is beyond describing how annoying and frustrating OC traffic is to someone who is from somewhere less congested. The problem is not just occaisional jams, but constant traffic all the time. On a major street it is rare to get through a light in one go, and there is a light at almost every intersection. That is why everyone is so harried. It takes forever to get anywhere and it seem like no one seems to learn to leave more time.
4. You are combining her two seperate sentences. She said that there are bad neighborhoods everywhere. That is true. Then she siad that you can go places where a good neighborhood is a few blocks from a bad neighborhood. This is also true. It is not true everywhere in the county, but that is not what she said.
5. For a single person who can live in an apartment with a roomate, 50K is rich. However I think that she was referring to a place to actually live, not an apartment where you stay for a little while, but a home. The kind of place where someone might raise a family. And it is true that you have to be rich to find such a place in Malibu, Newport or Laguna. However I disagree that those are the only places that are nice. If you are rich you can also live in Orange Park Acres, Villa Park, Nellie Gale, Dana Point and lots of other nice places. She mentioned a lot of other nice places, but said that they cost more. She is correct, the nicer places cost a lot more to live in than less nice places.
I get a kick out of this thread. It is super active because people get all bent out of shape becasue someone dared to have a different opinion than what the media touts. Say that OC is anything less thanperfect and people go crazy. People call her negative, but she actually pointed out that there are good things and bad things, but in the balance she prefers elsewhere. I happen to agree with her although for different reasons. I loved OC while I lived there full time, I miss it often when I am not there and I miss our firend a great deal, but I am glad that we moved our kids away. OC is like anywhere else it has good and bad points it is not perfect, it is not even better. It is just different. That is all that she pointed out but people are going crazy attacing her in any way possible, even accusing the lady who happened to agree with her of being the same person. Crazy, but amusing.
Any advice moving from Philly to OC..Pref Newport BEach? I have a job opportunity that I'm considering and now after eading all of these posts I'm really confused
1. Try lving in almost any other state outside of downtowns and you will discern why people from other places consider Orange CouUnty crowded. Look out the window of an airplane over OC. You will see that it is pretty much nothing but buildings and roads. It is a crammed packed place where everyone is always in a hurry and harried to get to their next destination. The FBI lists of the "safest" communiteis are defined by the size of each town. Thousands of small places that do not appear on the list have zero crime or near zero. Further, the fact that crime occur six blocks away accross an invisible city divider line genrally des nto make anyone feel much safer. Thus, while Irvine may be the safest city of its size, that "safety" is relative since there are higher crime areas only blocks away. Irvine abuts Santa Ana for exampl and people love to carry on about what a dangerous place Santa Ana is. So while Orange county is a lot safer than say San Jose, or Detroit. It is probably not safer than Hell Michigan, or Cave City Kentucky for example (I did not bother to look these places statistic up, just picked some random small places that probably have little or no crime). The point is that if you get outside of the crowded congested Orange COunty area, there are thousands of places with space and little or no crime not only in a concentrated area but for miles and imiles of saftey and space.
2. She is talking about Orange County, not the entire state. there are warnings on television during the summer telling residents to avoid going outside and not to exercise due to smog conditions. When I am told to stay inside or at least avaoid exercise, to me that is a serious health impact. On the weekends, the smog smudge moves to the beaches. During the week is stays more inland where the freeways are. It is certianly there, and it seems odd to say that breahting that crud is not a health concern. You can see the brown smudge in the sky when you come into Orange County in an airplane or from the mountains. Yes Riverside and San Bernardino are generally worse, but there is a serious smog problem for a good part of the year in Orange County. The partial haze that you are talking about is what traps the pooution in place and forms smog. The word smog comes from the combination of air pollution with fog or haze. Studies have shown the kids who grow up in LA, OC and the inland empire have reduced lung capacity compared to people who grow up in say Iowa. Part of that may be attributable to less exercise, but part is probably caused by smog.
3. This is an exaggeration. I do not know of anywhere that it takes 2-3 hours to go ten miles. but it does often take 2 hours to go from Santa Ana to LA. That is 37 miles. I suppose it could take 3 hours to go 10 miles on the 91 Eastbound on a Friday, especially before a holiday weekend, but even there I am not sure it is that bad. Her point however is that traffic is horrible. She is correct. It is horible. It is beyond describing how annoying and frustrating OC traffic is to someone who is from somewhere less congested. The problem is not just occaisional jams, but constant traffic all the time. On a major street it is rare to get through a light in one go, and there is a light at almost every intersection. That is why everyone is so harried. It takes forever to get anywhere and it seem like no one seems to learn to leave more time.
4. You are combining her two seperate sentences. She said that there are bad neighborhoods everywhere. That is true. Then she siad that you can go places where a good neighborhood is a few blocks from a bad neighborhood. This is also true. It is not true everywhere in the county, but that is not what she said.
5. For a single person who can live in an apartment with a roomate, 50K is rich. However I think that she was referring to a place to actually live, not an apartment where you stay for a little while, but a home. The kind of place where someone might raise a family. And it is true that you have to be rich to find such a place in Malibu, Newport or Laguna. However I disagree that those are the only places that are nice. If you are rich you can also live in Orange Park Acres, Villa Park, Nellie Gale, Dana Point and lots of other nice places. She mentioned a lot of other nice places, but said that they cost more. She is correct, the nicer places cost a lot more to live in than less nice places.
I get a kick out of this thread. It is super active because people get all bent out of shape becasue someone dared to have a different opinion than what the media touts. Say that OC is anything less thanperfect and people go crazy. People call her negative, but she actually pointed out that there are good things and bad things, but in the balance she prefers elsewhere. I happen to agree with her although for different reasons. I loved OC while I lived there full time, I miss it often when I am not there and I miss our firend a great deal, but I am glad that we moved our kids away. OC is like anywhere else it has good and bad points it is not perfect, it is not even better. It is just different. That is all that she pointed out but people are going crazy attacing her in any way possible, even accusing the lady who happened to agree with her of being the same person. Crazy, but amusing.
1. You'd have to define crowded. The way people perceive it varies. I enjoy being where "the action" is. And SoCal is far less crowded than most all other areas that have a lot going on (NYC, SF, Chicago etc). The crime part varies. I agree that, in areas that are 6 blocks away from high crime areas, I would not feel safe. Fortunately, there are plenty of areas in SoCal where you have at least 6 MILES (and sometimes many more) between bad areas.
2. The news alerts you are referring to generally will tell you where they apply to. If one pays attention, they will specify where it is an issue. As far as the week-weekend thing goes...que paso? There is no merit to that whatsoever. The air pollution only shifts to the beach when the wind direction shifts to an off-shore flow. This typically does not happen in summer. In the other seasons, air quality is not a concern even in Riverside etc. Seven years of living here and the only time I've ever had an air quality warning to stay inside was when there were fires AND the wind direction pointed those fire conditions towards where I was.
3. Going from Santa Ana to L.A. represents one of the worst commutes in SoCal. It is certainly not a neccesary part of living here. How bad traffic s depends on where you're going, on which roads you're going and what time of day. It is true that you need to plan out wher you're living and working to minimize the commute. But this is doable. Many people will tell you that-as far as the largest metropolitan areas of the country go (and, let's not kid ourselves, LA and OC are part of one of the largest) traffic in SoCal is actual;ly quite manageable. Granted, they're comparing it to places like Chicago, Houston and NYC. But that's the category of places this area belongs in. In SoCal, there are many ways to live in a very nice area and not have a terrible commute.
4. It's not true that everywhere is just a few blocks from a bad area. Many places are much further away from bad areas that a few blocks. Not sure if that was what you were getting at or not.
5. If one is hellbent on owning a house (not even a condo), living in a nice neighboorhood and can't pay more than 300K, certainly they will find it difficult to be in an ideal area. If you state it specifically and objectively like that, there's no argument. You'll get an argument when you make genralized and subjective comments along the lines of "You have to be rich to live anywhere nice".
Any advice moving from Philly to OC..Pref Newport BEach? I have a job opportunity that I'm considering and now after eading all of these posts I'm really confused
If you can offer specifics as to what you're looking for in a place and how much you're willing/able to pay, we can help you. Be as specific as possible and only put stock into responses that are specific and objective (i.e. fact-based).
WOW!! Coldjensens..thank you for the back-up here. Maybe I did exaggerate the traffic situation but sometimes it felt like I was in the car for 2 hours on a 10-mile ride. I do remember being in labor and sitting on the 405 for over an hour. I believe my husband made the exit from Beach Blvd and then we had to go to Irvine Medical Center. I am not sure how many miles it is from Beach Blvd to the Irvine Medical Center exit but I was afraid I would have my son in the car!! It was scarey..
I appreciate your truthfulness and honestly don't understand some of these people. Gosh I have visited the forum and checked out lots of posts regarding cities and states that I have lived in. Many people have stated their opinions that they have hated the areas that I personally loved. I don't get upset or mad about that. I just figure the city (Portland was a good example) is not for everyone. And that is OK. I would never take someone's experience or opinion of somewhere and try to force my opinion on them. It seems like these OC people get really offended easily... Geez they need to lighten up
Anyway, I guess you and I are both not telling the truth and we are both mental cases (as Fontucky told me) because we talk about smog, traffic and OC reality. Whatever... I will not back down and will continue to stand behind what I have stated.
Thanks again...
By the way, the last time someone agreed with me we both were accused of being the same person!!! LOL, what a crack up!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I can respond to some of these issues:
1. Try lving in almost any other state outside of downtowns and you will discern why people from other places consider Orange CouUnty crowded. Look out the window of an airplane over OC. You will see that it is pretty much nothing but buildings and roads. It is a crammed packed place where everyone is always in a hurry and harried to get to their next destination. The FBI lists of the "safest" communiteis are defined by the size of each town. Thousands of small places that do not appear on the list have zero crime or near zero. Further, the fact that crime occur six blocks away accross an invisible city divider line genrally des nto make anyone feel much safer. Thus, while Irvine may be the safest city of its size, that "safety" is relative since there are higher crime areas only blocks away. Irvine abuts Santa Ana for exampl and people love to carry on about what a dangerous place Santa Ana is. So while Orange county is a lot safer than say San Jose, or Detroit. It is probably not safer than Hell Michigan, or Cave City Kentucky for example (I did not bother to look these places statistic up, just picked some random small places that probably have little or no crime). The point is that if you get outside of the crowded congested Orange COunty area, there are thousands of places with space and little or no crime not only in a concentrated area but for miles and imiles of saftey and space.
2. She is talking about Orange County, not the entire state. there are warnings on television during the summer telling residents to avoid going outside and not to exercise due to smog conditions. When I am told to stay inside or at least avaoid exercise, to me that is a serious health impact. On the weekends, the smog smudge moves to the beaches. During the week is stays more inland where the freeways are. It is certianly there, and it seems odd to say that breahting that crud is not a health concern. You can see the brown smudge in the sky when you come into Orange County in an airplane or from the mountains. Yes Riverside and San Bernardino are generally worse, but there is a serious smog problem for a good part of the year in Orange County. The partial haze that you are talking about is what traps the pooution in place and forms smog. The word smog comes from the combination of air pollution with fog or haze. Studies have shown the kids who grow up in LA, OC and the inland empire have reduced lung capacity compared to people who grow up in say Iowa. Part of that may be attributable to less exercise, but part is probably caused by smog.
3. This is an exaggeration. I do not know of anywhere that it takes 2-3 hours to go ten miles. but it does often take 2 hours to go from Santa Ana to LA. That is 37 miles. I suppose it could take 3 hours to go 10 miles on the 91 Eastbound on a Friday, especially before a holiday weekend, but even there I am not sure it is that bad. Her point however is that traffic is horrible. She is correct. It is horible. It is beyond describing how annoying and frustrating OC traffic is to someone who is from somewhere less congested. The problem is not just occaisional jams, but constant traffic all the time. On a major street it is rare to get through a light in one go, and there is a light at almost every intersection. That is why everyone is so harried. It takes forever to get anywhere and it seem like no one seems to learn to leave more time.
4. You are combining her two seperate sentences. She said that there are bad neighborhoods everywhere. That is true. Then she siad that you can go places where a good neighborhood is a few blocks from a bad neighborhood. This is also true. It is not true everywhere in the county, but that is not what she said.
5. For a single person who can live in an apartment with a roomate, 50K is rich. However I think that she was referring to a place to actually live, not an apartment where you stay for a little while, but a home. The kind of place where someone might raise a family. And it is true that you have to be rich to find such a place in Malibu, Newport or Laguna. However I disagree that those are the only places that are nice. If you are rich you can also live in Orange Park Acres, Villa Park, Nellie Gale, Dana Point and lots of other nice places. She mentioned a lot of other nice places, but said that they cost more. She is correct, the nicer places cost a lot more to live in than less nice places.
I get a kick out of this thread. It is super active because people get all bent out of shape becasue someone dared to have a different opinion than what the media touts. Say that OC is anything less thanperfect and people go crazy. People call her negative, but she actually pointed out that there are good things and bad things, but in the balance she prefers elsewhere. I happen to agree with her although for different reasons. I loved OC while I lived there full time, I miss it often when I am not there and I miss our firend a great deal, but I am glad that we moved our kids away. OC is like anywhere else it has good and bad points it is not perfect, it is not even better. It is just different. That is all that she pointed out but people are going crazy attacing her in any way possible, even accusing the lady who happened to agree with her of being the same person. Crazy, but amusing.
OMG Skyward31, are you on -----? I personally sat on the 405 freeway and almost delivered my baby in the car!! You are in big time denial!!
And maybe people DO NOT want to have a roommate... The quality of life in OC is the pits unless you have money...PERIOD. I wouldn't consider 50K to be on the lower class level either. It is middle class and many people do not make that kind of money. What about the people who make $10.00 an hour? Do they have to live with four or five room mates to make it work there? That is hardly a good life for anyone and a big pain in the ---
You need a huge reality check-up from the neck up!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31
I've bolded the comments I am choosing to respond to. The responses will be in order from top to bottom:
1. You didn't define "crowded" nor "awful lot of crime". When I think crowded, I think of Disney on a summer weekend afternoon. I think of NYC streets. You can easily avoid crowding throughout most of California. Now, if you want to go somewhere void of civilization for hundreds of miles around, you're going to have trouble. Though the Central Coast has some of this. And crime? Many of the SAFEST communiites in the entire country are in California. So are some of the most dangerous. Depends on where you're at. It's a terribly inaccurate overgeneralization to say what was said in the post above.
2. This is a great mischaracterization as well. In the overwhelming majority of the state-and where large population centers are-air pollution is of ZERO significance in day to day life. Zero. Only in the far inland areas of L.A. like San Bernadino and Riverside is it the least bit likely that you'll have some days in the summer when this is the case. Otherwise it is NEVER an issue impacting health or quality of ;life. When you look over the horizon and visibility is diminished, it is NOT air pollution you are seeing. It is a partial fog which is a result of the marine layer which is a naturally occuring phenomenon in California. Sure, there is pollution in the air-as there is in all metropolitan areas-but that's not what you're seeing.
3. Bull****. It MAY happen in the absolute worst traffic zone at the absolute worst time of day when there is a wreck. Otherwise this is completely false.
4. This does not apply to everywhere by any means. There are parts where this may be true. But there are many parts where you have large chunks of mileage between bad areas.
5. You don't need to be rich to live in these areas. I make a little less than 50k and do it with no problem. I do have to rent and really need a roommate, but that's fine by me. I could afford to get a 1-bedroom if I so desired.
I was only saying this about Oregon and Washington not to compare but to say that I got used to the air quality in Southern California and it was only after I left that I noticed how really bad it was in OC. I actually didn't have sinus problems or headaches anymore. Another person was posting and saying they didn't think there was any smog in OC.. I disagree with that statement.
In all honesty there are many things that would fall short regarding a comparison being made between Washington or Oregon with California. The Beach's in Oregon and Washington are colder and grey alot.. No Disneyland, Seaworld or other awesome places... Not a bad comparison just one of reality that's all.
I lived in Riverside. My eyes ALWAYS itched and watered, and I couldn't go more than a block without being short of breath. As soon as I got out of there, on a vacation going east to Kansas, I discovered the itching and shortness of breath were GONE. And as soon as I got back into socal they came back.
YOu do get used to it but up to a point. If breathing air that makes it hard to breath is not bad for you and something to warn others who might just have the same problem I don't know what is.
I wouldn't compare a small town in Oklahoma with Riverside either, except to say that having discovered what it is to breath freely, even knowing what was causing the problems before, I would never find it acceptable again.
You can't compare two places exactly even if they are nearly the same. But you can list the good and the bad of both and let people make up their mind based on what works for them. And just because there is no Disneyland, or movie theaters all over town does not mean a rural area is not as good or the megasuburb is better. To each his own.
2. The news alerts you are referring to generally will tell you where they apply to. If one pays attention, they will specify where it is an issue. As far as the week-weekend thing goes...que paso? There is no merit to that whatsoever. The air pollution only shifts to the beach when the wind direction shifts to an off-shore flow. This typically does not happen in summer. In the other seasons, air quality is not a concern even in Riverside etc. Seven years of living here and the only time I've ever had an air quality warning to stay inside was when there were fires AND the wind direction pointed those fire conditions towards where I was.
I was raised in the San Fernando Valley in the 50's and 60's. The smog was considered "part of life". When my lung capacity was tested later it showed that due to the smog I have lost 1/3 normal capacity. Even when smog is not as bad it has to "be a concern". I lived in Orange county for fifteen years, mostly at the beach, and its true the smog isn't a major thing for the three or four miles next to the coast. But just drive out of that microclimate and it is there. I worked in Santa Ana and would drive into a blown cloud of muck and not just in one season.
As far as Riverside, its and SBD have the worse smog in the nation. Yes, smog is a concern all year. It gets worse when you can see grey goop in the sky, but it is being breathed all the time. If you are telling people how it is who might move there, OR inland OC, OR the inland valleys of LA, that they will be doing serious damage to their kids developing health is certainly what should be near the top of the list of considerations.
Maybe I did exaggerate the traffic situation but sometimes it felt like I was in the car for 2 hours on a 10-mile ride
No, you didn't exaggerate the traffic situation because in the short 7 years I lived there I have probably driven more miles then most of you people on this forum as I drove tow trucks and then later on operated my own mobile business from LA/OC all the way to the Rancho Cucamonga
So speaking from experience, the traffic was such an issue that I had to frequently use side/back streets to get to where I was going and getting up a 5am was a must if you wanted to get anywhere on time from say, Irvine to LA. Sff, why do you think people who have money in California rent/buy helicopters?
Anyhow, when I would use the 710/605 corridor it got to the point where I would be on extra guard for my life because of the frequent freeway shootings. You know, people coming off from work stressed out/tired, people loosing jobs, then the same people stuck in hot traffic that's hardly moving just makes an environment for people to get ticked off very easily and pull a gun on you just because you cut them off.
Sff, that's no way to live, nor is living out in the desert and driving 4 hours round trip to LA and back that your not getting paid for just to survive.
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