EPA ranks OC amongst dirtiest in pollution (Los Angeles, San Diego: houses, earthquake)

[FresnoFacts]

Good to discuss but everyone needs to interpret the info for themselves.

The data at Scorecard is from 2003, which was a peak in ozone. For example, Orange County had unhealthy air for the General Population on 6 days in 2003, 1 day in 2004, 0 days in 2005, 2 days in 2006, and 3 days in 2007.
http://www.epa.gov/cgi-bin/broker?_s...ycounty=county

Also look at the map on this page, note that areas considered out of attainment for air quality represent most of the major cities in the US.
Pollution Locator: Smog and Particulates

[mommyntheoc]

It is interesting how you justify the EPA nationwide findings...so let me follow your train of thought.

If you are saying 314 counties = 10% of counties in the USA...then how do you justify that many of the top 100 most populous counties (as of 2007) are NOT in the top 10% on the EPA dirtiest list, when according to your method the top 314 most populated counties should be the dirtiest?

In fact...Denver (80210) is not in the top 10% dirtiest...not true for San Diego (92069) either! And New York (11225) is even cleaner than that...yet all are in the TOP 7 MOST POPULATED COUNTIES IN THE COUNTRY, along with LA & Orange counties!

Yet, by your logic, definitely the 7 most populous counties (up to #314 actually) should be in the top 10% dirtiest...?


(about the prescription drugs, you didn't get the point at all...I am saying that life expectancies are overall longer due to drug use...it doesn't differentiate between locations - you missed the entire quantification factor in southern CA...everything is about how many you have (years, toys, tvs, cars...not QUALITY of life - I'm glad your son's asthma was corrected here, it is a weather based/activity based disease for him, for many it is a pollution based issue of particulate matter lodging in the developing lungs never allowing for them to reach full and normal potential)

[mommyntheoc]

You may not realize this but there are MANY major cities that are NOT located on a coast and the vast majority of that map, including most of the population of the country, is meeting EPA standards...perhaps just the people who overuse and waste causing pollution feel they need waterfront property...hmmm this would be an interesting sociological study!

I do agree each person should think for themselves on this and all issues, the trick is that they need to stop justifying and start looking and thinking...

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

note that areas considered out of attainment for air quality represent most of the major cities in the US.
Pollution Locator: Smog and Particulates

[missionhome]

OK, I don't feel like debating this for hours and hours. I do agree that air pollution is a problem throughout Southern California and something that we all need to work on together. However for me personally, the air quality is not really having any effect on my quality of life or the quality of life for my family other than we can't look at a mountain clearly on some days.

I don't think I would like living in some of the cities that were not on the map of "polluted cities" that fontucky posted so my quality of life would be worse if I were there instead of here.

Again, this is just me personally. Some people may see this as reason enough to move.

[mommyntheoc]

It isn't a debate...it is simply a statement to be thought about, to be forward thinking rather than stuck in the moment and focused only on what effects a single person in the present.

Effects of pollution are long-lasting and not immediately noticeable usually, yes, the mountain view is blocked most days now...but soon we may not be able to tell Saddleback is there at all...and perhaps your grandbabies will pay the price with other health issues they are born with due to the pollution levels now settling and accumulating in the soil from the air. Are you old enough to remember when lead was added to gasoline to make the engines run better? And then the lead was in the air, it fell into the soil, and 50 years later, the soil is still contaminated...

And I didn't post this as a reason to move, but perhaps a reason to improve...afterall, the residents on this forum have the power to change, and since this is a moving forum...it is good for potential relocators here to know the pollution impacts.

[missionhome]

Well I'm much older than you. When I was young it was so bad that there were smog alert days where you could not go outside. You could almost NEVER see mountains here in the Southland. Today I can see Saddleback every single day pretty much. Our cars are much cleaner today and pollution has been showing a dramatically improving trend here in So Cal. Anyone who lived through the 70's knows it is much cleaner and the data supports this. We use to have around 150 severe smog alert days per year usually. However, while we have improved, we still have a long way to go and are still among the worst in the country. And yes, I remember lead in gasoline. We didn't understand then and we may not fully know now what we are doing with pollutants of today, but the best we can do is try to be as efficient as possible.

We can all cut on pollution in little ways and it helps the region greatly. It would also be interesting to see how much cleaner the air would be if we all drove a hybrid.

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by mommyntheoc

You may not realize this but there are MANY major cities that are NOT located on a coast and the vast majority of that map, including most of the population of the country, is meeting EPA standards...perhaps just the people who overuse and waste causing pollution feel they need waterfront property...hmmm this would be an interesting sociological study!

Actually I do know there are major cities in the midwest. I've lived in apartments in some like Omaha and others. I've also visited many, many others on business.

No offense, I believe you are wrong about most of the people living where the air meets EPA standards.

60% of Americans live where there is unhealthy air according to the American Lung Association. So most of the population is NOT breathing air that meets EPA standards.
60% Of Americans Breathing Unhealthy Air - CBS News

It should be a concern for all Americans, not just those in OC or California.

But I believe we are making progress. I worked at an event for the very first Earth Day back in the early 70s so I remember how it used to be. The lack of environmental laws and people's behavior created much worse pollution.

And although I live in an area with bad air quality (and it has improved in spite of high population growth) there are also other ways this area is better about the environment.

For example, the state and other sources have recognized Fresno as the best city for recycling. Fresno currently diverts 71% of household waste to recycling programs. That reduces pollution from landfills.
http://www.fresno.gov/NR/rdonlyres/9...nRecycling.pdf

Now an interesting study might also be how people in areas with cleaner air look at the environment. Men's Health ranked these as 10 worse cities for recycling out of the nation's 100 largest:
Wichita
Las Vegas
Colorado Springs
Billings, MT
Lubbock, TX
St Petersburg, FL
Detroit
Lincoln, NE
Aurora, CO
Louisville, KY
Metrogrades: The Best Cities for Recycling: Men's Heath.com

Maybe some of those cities take the environment for granted since they don't think about air pollution?

[mommyntheoc]

Amen! Missionhome, I think we finally agree on something! :-)

Originally Posted by missionhome

we still have a long way to go and are still among the worst in the country. And yes, I remember lead in gasoline. We didn't understand then and we may not fully know now what we are doing with pollutants of today, but the best we can do is try to be as efficient as possible.

We can all cut on pollution in little ways and it helps the region greatly. It would also be interesting to see how much cleaner the air would be if we all drove a hybrid.

[mommyntheoc]

I'm so glad you've thought for yourself about this! So many people do not take the time to really look deeper at the issues...

...but your original thought which I responded to above still doesn't work out...unless you can tweak it? I'm very interested in your way of thinking about this....why are the top 7 most populated cities not in the top 10% dirtiest if population is the factor?

And while Fresno should be congratulated for their efforts, OC is lagging in recycling programs...and creating demand for the supply of recycled products. There is a lot going down into the Ortega mountain area landfill from all of our houses here in OC still...and there are still many more people sitting in rush hour traffic with 1 person per car than there are with multiple people in each car...so I think it is important to empower those people with knowledge so that they care and realize they can make a difference, because despite comparisons, this area is still very much in polluted trouble.

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

Actually I do know there are major cities in the midwest. I've lived in apartments in some like Omaha and others. I've also visited many, many others on business.

No offense, I believe you are wrong about most of the people living where the air meets EPA standards.

60% of Americans live where there is unhealthy air according to the American Lung Association. So most of the population is NOT breathing air that meets EPA standards.
60% Of Americans Breathing Unhealthy Air - CBS News

It should be a concern for all Americans, not just those in OC or California.

But I believe we are making progress. I worked at an event for the very first Earth Day back in the early 70s so I remember how it used to be. The lack of environmental laws and people's behavior created much worse pollution.

And although I live in an area with bad air quality (and it has improved in spite of high population growth) there are also other ways this area is better about the environment.

For example, the state and other sources have recognized Fresno as the best city for recycling. Fresno currently diverts 71% of household waste to recycling programs. That reduces pollution from landfills.
http://www.fresno.gov/NR/rdonlyres/9...nRecycling.pdf

Now an interesting study might also be how people in areas with cleaner air look at the environment. Men's Health ranked these as 10 worse cities for recycling out of the nation's 100 largest:
Wichita
Las Vegas
Colorado Springs
Billings, MT
Lubbock, TX
St Petersburg, FL
Detroit
Lincoln, NE
Aurora, CO
Louisville, KY
Metrogrades: The Best Cities for Recycling: Men's Heath.com

Maybe some of those cities take the environment for granted since they don't think about air pollution?

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by mommyntheoc

...but your original thought which I responded to above still doesn't work out...unless you can tweak it? I'm very interested in your way of thinking about this....why are the top 7 most populated cities not in the top 10% dirtiest if population is the factor?

I'm not sure what list you are looking at, the top 7 largest cities would include LA and Houston, both places with very dirty air.

But in general air quality is aggravated by geography and weather patterns.

Areas with close mountains trap pollutants. Areas with strong winds can blow the pollutants away. That doesn't explain all areas like Houston but is a decent rule of thumb.

A good example is the Inland Empire, some pollutants blow in from Los Angeles which gets trapped by the mountains along with pollution from local sources. So it has some of the worse air in the country.

Another good example is Arvin in Kern County, it is considered likely the individual city with the worse smog problem in the country. Pollution starts in the Bay Area and is blown by winds through the Delta and into the Central Valley. Each area in the Valley adds more pollutants as wind blows air the 200 miles down to Arvin. The city sits against the mountains which traps the pollution from going elsewhere.

Consider Florida which does not have the same air problems but also does not have mountains to trap pollutants. Of course you have to wonder what happens when the winds blow Florida's air pollution out to sea, it has to end up somewhere.