Is Corvallis anti-growth? (Albany, Ashland, Phoenix: high crime, mortgage, Home Depot)

[chrisruns2far]

Originally Posted by freedom

Those are great statistics, you left out the benefit that developers and Builders bring to society. Their actions effect every business a town has. The list would be too long, in short, every business that is in business has a builder behind it. No home, no people, no people no need for anything, no state, cities or farms.

Nothing gets built, including the roof over your head, without a builder, developer and laborers.
The pursuit of happiness includes right to property, and an income. Where is the thanks for Sewer and water systems, roads, bridges, utility infrastructure.
The thing is, we as Americans have it so good, some people use their time to limit the freedom of others right to pursue their dreams.

What we see here from your POV is the "I've got my piece of Oregon club", forget anyone else that wants to move here. Which heads us into only the wealthy will be able to afford to live here. Not very neighborly.

If Farming is so popular and in such demand, why do a high percentage of farmers want to convert THEIR land into other types of uses. Measure 37 was voted in, the dictator, socialist tactics of this liberal gov't here in Oregon is un-doing the will of the people to have their Property rights back.
There are many places on this earth that one can move to, that have the socialism you seem to embrace. Keep it out of America. It is an abomination to free people.

freedom

Lazy minds always default to bombastic idealogy when confronted by the facts of reality. What you label as socialist and an "abomination" I define as caring and concern for an Oregon that will best benefit all of us (planned Development) and preservation of rural communties, open space, productive farmland and ranch land, working and productive private forest lands, sustainable groundwater and wate quality, etc, etc, etc. I know that what I say will never change your idealogy, but I prefer people make an argument with verifiable facts so we can have a rational debate, something that is becoming a lost art form in this country.

[chrisruns2far]

Originally Posted by bobmulk

I hope you don't live in a house built by a developer. I hope you don't shop in stores or restaurants built by a developer. I hope you didn't attend a school built by a developer. If you have, your anti-developer/development comments hold no water.

I have nothing against development when it is balanced with sustainability and foresight. Development and growth should pay its own way and not have the rest of us pick up the tab. Can you share with me any pro-development facts or statistics to change or counter that I have previously posted? Make me eat my words.

[bobmulk]

God, I'm not going to get into a *****fest here, although I easily could. You have totally missed the point.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by chrisruns2far

Lazy minds always default to bombastic idealogy when confronted by the facts of reality. What you label as socialist and an "abomination" I define as caring and concern for an Oregon that will best benefit all of us (planned Development) and preservation of rural communties, open space, productive farmland and ranch land, working and productive private forest lands, sustainable groundwater and wate quality, etc, etc, etc. I know that what I say will never change your idealogy, but I prefer people make an argument with verifiable facts so we can have a rational debate, something that is becoming a lost art form in this country.

We have a 5% footprint on this state. You obviously have issues with the right to property, and the pursuit of happiness.
Not everyone wants to live in a congested, highrise city like Portland. Some like to live out in that rural land that you wish to micro manage.

I liken it to a rancher that has a million head of cattle, yet won't slaughter a single one in order to feed his family, because the waste product might hurt the water shed.

Preservation for preservations sake in oppressive. It is an ideology that creates land cops and ties the hands of free people. Binds down and burdens the pursuit of happiness.
We are seeing the effects on peoples happiness, when we look at how the timber industry was destroyed in this state by the excuse of a tree vole and an owl. Which was under attack by barn owls and not loggers. oooppppps...

Sorry Mr. logger you lost your job, your house, your marriage, due to a fanatical ideology based on the (supposed) survival of a woods mouse and an owl.
By people who believe in Darwinism and the religion of survival of the fittest. Well let the belief work its magic.

[chrisruns2far]

Originally Posted by freedom

We have a 5% footprint on this state. You obviously have issues with the right to property, and the pursuit of happiness.
Not everyone wants to live in a congested, highrise city like Portland. Some like to live out in that rural land that you wish to micro manage.

I liken it to a rancher that has a million head of cattle, yet won't slaughter a single one in order to feed his family, because the waste product might hurt the water shed.

Preservation for preservations sake in oppressive. It is an ideology that creates land cops and ties the hands of free people. Binds down and burdens the pursuit of happiness.
We are seeing the effects on peoples happiness, when we look at how the timber industry was destroyed in this state by the excuse of a tree vole and an owl. Which was under attack by barn owls and not loggers. oooppppps...

Sorry Mr. logger you lost your job, your house, your marriage, due to a fanatical ideology based on the (supposed) survival of a woods mouse and an owl.
By people who believe in Darwinism and the religion of survival of the fittest. Well let the belief work its magic.

Thanks for the above comments.......i'll let the emotional irrationality speak for itself and sign off on this topic for now.

[vanight]

I know all the hippy tree huggers mean well, but there is a point when your intentions do more damage than the good you so emotionally intended. I think we are way overboard on environmental issues and taking away property rights in Oregon. Thank our 20 years of democratic governorship for that. Its like the whole seal issue, seals eat more Salmon than you can even imagine, yet we are protecting them to the point they are impacting severely our salmon runs. Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant....

[vanight]

I had a spotted owl for dinner last night....8-)

[vanight]

The way I see it is that the Liberal elite want to shut everything down for the average guy who wants to use their limited resources, catch a few fish, hunt a few deer. You see, they can afford to charter their own boat or go on a "pay by the point" controlled hunt. They can afford to do whatever they want, so why not eliminate all the competition just for the heck of it. Liberal narcism is alive and well in Oregon my friend.

[jjpop]

Originally Posted by vanight

I had a spotted owl for dinner last night....8-)

I had a Painted Hills New York steak (sustainably grown with no antibiotics or hormones and fed an all-vegetarian diet), purchased from a non-chain local grocery store (keeping my dollar in the community), grilled on my propane grill (no VOCs from charcoal lighter fluid) after I mowed my lawn with a push reel mower (no CO2 emissions).

I guess I'm the epitome of liberal narcissism because I'm obviously only thinking of myself when I ate that steak.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by jjpop

I had a Painted Hills New York steak (sustainably grown with no antibiotics or hormones and fed an all-vegetarian diet), purchased from a non-chain local grocery store (keeping my dollar in the community), grilled on my propane grill (no VOCs from charcoal lighter fluid) after I mowed my lawn with a push reel mower (no CO2 emissions).

I guess I'm the epitome of liberal narcissism because I'm obviously only thinking of myself when I ate that steak.

What is awesome is you exercised your freedom to do so, and to my knowledge didnt' force anyone else to make the same choices as you.

Some extremeists would say you were contributing to the Idustrial Oil complex when you cooked it with propane.
A good stake is best cooked on wood, which is collected in the forest in my backyard off of dead and dying manzanita, and on a Weber grill.

You missed out on an incredible flavor enhancer. Next time you may want to take more thought on how you cook that slab o' cow......

freedom