Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Oregon
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-19-2018, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,179 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 7934

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I think this is probably part of your problem. People know when you're looking down your nose at them. Could also be a part of the problem you're having with contractors as well; they probably pick up on you and your husband's disdain for all those beards and flannel and quote accordingly. They're independent business people, not servants, by the way.

Junky neighborhoods are that way everywhere. I live in a PNW town that's smaller than yours, and I see and experience very little of what you're describing. But in certain neighborhoods here, it definitely exists.

FYI, most of the former timber workers have moved on or retired, but the vibe remains in some of these towns. Not sure if the one you're in is among them. From the way you say your husband is yelling at you over this, geography is probably among the least of your problems.

My comment about Standard Rock is that there's a certain type of white progressive that seems to view their vision of diversity as lifestyle amenity that they're somehow entitled to. The white people who showed up at Standing Rock expecting it to be a festival are a pretty good example of that mindset. This kind of explains it:

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...n-10640250.php

I can understand valuing diversity, but as I said before, you come across as feeling somehow entitled to it.

I hope you find happiness somewhere. Maybe somewhere like Redlands, CA? SIL lived there for years, and I really liked it when we visited. Probably has it's junky side like everywhere. My sister has a home in Lake Oswego and likes it but diversity's in short supply there.
Wow, make assumptions much? According to you, I’m an entitled progressive snob with a bad marriage who treats contractors badly. None of that is true, I have no problems with the less fortunate, but do run out of patience with those who are lazy.

While looking for contractors, I still really liked this place and hoped we’d stay for awhile. I was so happy to get someone to even show up for an estimate, I would have done nothing to make them angry. I often had to wait two weeks to get someone out here. We gave up on them over a year ago and do most home improvements ourselves. I do the tiling and painting and spouse who has an electrical engineering degree can change a light bulb. And also do wiring in of new fixtures as well as plumbing. So we’re good there.

When I was wondering if the ex timber people could find new jobs as contractors, it was just an idea. If there is such a shortage of contractors in the Northwest, why aren’t people stepping in to fill the void, was my point.

Again, you are jumping in to defend a lot of what’s wrong with rural living here. Read Greenman’s post. He has made some good observations. I think the PNW has potential as far as trying another area. It offers a mild climate and beautiful scenery. Living closer to a city would improve the isolation problem and living in a better neighborhood would help with the druggies and trash dumpers.

 
Old 12-19-2018, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,179 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 7934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post

There's some talk on one of my local FB community pages about not being able to find housekeeping and handyman services at "reasonable" prices, but in places like this where the working class has largely been priced out by incoming Californians, the working people who are left can't afford to work for cheap rates.
And the rich Californians can certainly afford to pay their prices. Yes, I know.
 
Old 12-19-2018, 11:36 AM
 
26,568 posts, read 36,484,295 times
Reputation: 29753
I wasn't "jumping in to defend anything;" just trying to explain something that you don't seem to be able to understand. I don't like some of the things about small towns that you don't, but I suspect I handle it much better, maybe because it just doesn't matter to me if my neighbors wear flannel. And then, I don't have a husband who's screaming in my face because he can't find other boys like himself to play with.

I read Greenman's post and don't disagree that some small towns have those problems. But I also think that a town McMinnville's size that hosts something of world renowned stature such as the IPF is doing something right. Not to mention Linfield and all those gorgeous old homes. Greenman sounds like he met up with some bad luck in McMinnville, but it's pretty obvious just from looking at the place that not everyone with the "talent and vision" that he mentioned has failed as miserably there as he has.

Quote:
If there is such a shortage of contractors in the Northwest, why aren’t people stepping in to fill the void, was my point.
Because they don't owe you cheap labor? Again, they aren't servants.

There's a shortage a lot of things. I have trouble finding a reliable housecleaner, yet it seems ridiculous to expect people to "step in and fill the void."

Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-19-2018 at 12:44 PM..
 
Old 12-19-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: WA
5,370 posts, read 7,645,373 times
Reputation: 8400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I wasn't "jumping in to defend anything;" just trying to explain something that you don't seem to be able to understand. I don't like the same things about small towns that you don't, but I suspect I handle it much better, maybe because it just doesn't matter to me if my neighbors wear flannel. And then, I don't have a husband who's screaming in my face because he can't find other boys to play with.

I read Greenman's post and don't disagree that some small towns have those problems. But I also think that a town McMinnville's size that hosts something of world renowned stature such as the IPF is doing something right. Not to mention Linfield and all those gorgeous old homes. Greenman sounds like he met up with some bad luck in McMinnville, but it's pretty obvious just from looking at the place that not everyone with the "talent and vision" that he mentioned has failed as miserably there as he has.



Because they don't owe you cheap labor? Again, they aren't servants.

There's a shortage a lot of things. I have trouble finding a reliable housecleaner, yet it seems ridiculous to expect people to "step in and fill the void."
And most people looking for work actually want real jobs with regular hours and benefits. A tremendous amount of work and investment goes into starting a contracting business, and especially building up the business to the point where you have enough work to stay employed full time. Just because someone somewhere wants 12 fence posts sunk for cheap doesn't mean there's enough work to merit the tens of thousands of dollars of investment (or more) into commercial post hole boring equipment and a creating a fencing contracting company that will provide 40 hours of contracting work for 52 weeks a year.

As for unemployed loggers? In most timber towns they mostly went unemployed in the 1980s and have long since moved on or retired.
 
Old 12-19-2018, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,179 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 7934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I wasn't "jumping in to defend anything;" just trying to explain something that you don't seem to be able to understand. I don't like the same things about small towns that you don't, but I suspect I handle it much better, maybe because it just doesn't matter to me if my neighbors wear flannel. And then, I don't have a husband who's screaming in my face because he can't find other boys to play with.

I read Greenman's post and don't disagree that some small towns have those problems. But I also think that a town McMinnville's size that hosts something of world renowned stature such as the IPF is doing something right. Not to mention Linfield and all those gorgeous old homes. Greenman sounds like he met up with some bad luck in McMinnville, but it's pretty obvious just from looking at the place that not everyone with the "talent and vision" that he mentioned has failed as miserably there as he has.



Because they don't owe you cheap labor? Again, they aren't servants.

There's a shortage a lot of things. I have trouble finding a reliable housecleaner, yet it seems ridiculous to expect people to "step in and fill the void."
I matters to me if my neighbors do drugs and dump mattresses in the front yard. Yuck. The number of flannel shirts and beards make the area seem insulated, but then it is insulated. The sheer number of men who dress alike is strange to me, but I didn’t grow up here. I’m sure locals don’t even think about it. BTW, spouse does not ‘scream in my face’. Yes, he complains loudly. But if you had an advanced degree in a STEM field and lived in a location where many locals only graduate high school, maybe you’d feel a little displaced.

McMinville has done pretty well for itself with what it has accomplished. What you don’t mention is the backward locals that Greenman mentions, who were originally opposed to outsiders coming in with new ideas. I didn’t read anything about his life being a failure. Where did you get that from?

I never said nor implied that contractors should be servants. But if there is a shortage of jobs in an area, you’d think that ambitious men and women would be jumping at the chance to train in a field that could bring them a very lucrative income.
 
Old 12-19-2018, 01:33 PM
 
26,568 posts, read 36,484,295 times
Reputation: 29753
Quote:
My spouse has hated it here from day one. I chose this place and he’s had more than one yelling fit about it.
^Your words. A "yelling fit" sounds an awful lot like screaming in your face.

Quote:
But if you had an advanced degree in a STEM field and lived in a location where many locals only graduate high school, maybe you’d feel a little displaced.
I actually have a degree in the sciences. Unlike your husband, I guess I just don't feel entitled to not "feel displaced" because my neighbor only went to high school, and I'm certainly not going to have "yelling fits" about it (neither would I move into a low-income area and expect to be surrounded by neighbors with STEM degrees).

I actually have no idea of the educational status of my neighbors; as Larry explained to you, people in the PNW don't depend on their neighbors for their social lives. But it seems that your husband would meet educated people through his job, at least.


Quote:
I matters to me if my neighbors do drugs and dump mattresses in the front yard. Yuck.
It would matter to me, too, which is why I didn't move into a junky neighborhood. This is just as likely to happen in a city, by the way, maybe even more so. BTW, certain smoking materials are legal here; don't care much for the smell myself, but it's just part of living around people.

Quote:
But if there is a shortage of jobs in an area, you’d think that ambitious men and women would be jumping at the chance to train in a field that could bring them a very lucrative income.
See Texasdiver's post. Also, there's no real shortage of jobs in your area. My
"failed timber town" comment was about a residual vibe; not about the current job market.

As far as Greenman's post, the bitterness comes through pretty loud and clear. I think you've zeroed in on his post because he shares your narrative of blaming everyone else because you don't like a place. I know people who have completely different takes on McMinnville than Greenman, and the place seems pleasant enough when I've been there.

I think you should look at the link Texasdriver posted on the previous page, because those places would be a better fit for you than anywhere in the PNW.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-19-2018 at 02:50 PM..
 
Old 12-19-2018, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,614,001 times
Reputation: 25231
More strange comments. I'm over 70 years old, and don't remember there ever being a lumber mill in McMinnville. Sheridan, Willamina, and Carlton had mills when I was growing up, but not Mac. The seed warehouses in town have closed, but that's just because farmers have moved to on-farm bulk grain storage rather than hauling their grain into town. It was a big hit to the town when Evergreen Aviation/Helicopters closed, but Del Smith was always a wheeler-dealer and ran a lot of debt. When he lost his CIA contract, his company went belly up. The Air Museum and the water park seem to be surviving.

As for the sciences, Linfield once had a renowned physics department. Linfield Research Institute invented the field emission X-ray source that replaced all the old vacuum X-ray tubes. They they made so much money they had to spin off Field Emission Corporation for the college to maintain its nonprofit status. Apparently the program is still successful. In 2016 the National Science Foundation awarded Linfield a multi-year grant to support its undergraduate research program and to provide scholarships to high performing students who want to major in the sciences. I would be surprised if there is a shortage of educated people in the area.
 
Old 12-19-2018, 04:04 PM
 
26,568 posts, read 36,484,295 times
Reputation: 29753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
More strange comments. I'm over 70 years old, and don't remember there ever being a lumber mill in McMinnville. Sheridan, Willamina, and Carlton had mills when I was growing up, but not Mac. The seed warehouses in town have closed, but that's just because farmers have moved to on-farm bulk grain storage rather than hauling their grain into town. It was a big hit to the town when Evergreen Aviation/Helicopters closed, but Del Smith was always a wheeler-dealer and ran a lot of debt. When he lost his CIA contract, his company went belly up. The Air Museum and the water park seem to be surviving.

.
Larry, any comment I made about the timber town vibe was about places I've lived, such as Oakridge and Florence as well as about Taz's current location in Olympia. I was trying to convey that I could commiserate to an extent with her dissatisfaction. None of the timber comments anyone made were about McMinnville; that was just tangential discussion

Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-19-2018 at 04:27 PM..
 
Old 12-19-2018, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,179 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 7934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
^Your words. A "yelling fit" sounds an awful lot like screaming in your face.



I actually have a degree in the sciences. Unlike your husband, I guess I just don't feel entitled to not "feel displaced" because my neighbor only went to high school, and I'm certainly not going to have "yelling fits" about it (neither would I move into a low-income area and expect to be surrounded by neighbors with STEM degrees).

I actually have no idea of the educational status of my neighbors; as Larry explained to you, people in the PNW don't depend on their neighbors for their social lives. But it seems that your husband would meet educated people through his job, at least.




It would matter to me, too, which is why I didn't move into a junky neighborhood. This is just as likely to happen in a city, by the way, maybe even more so. BTW, certain smoking materials are legal here; don't care much for the smell myself, but it's just part of living around people.



See Texasdiver's post. Also, there's no real shortage of jobs in your area. My
"failed timber town" comment was about a residual vibe; not about the current job market.

As far as Greenman's post, the bitterness comes through pretty loud and clear. I think you've zeroed in on his post because he shares your narrative of blaming everyone else because you don't like a place. I know people who have completely different takes on McMinnville than Greenman, and the place seems pleasant enough when I've been there.

I think you should look at the link Texasdriver posted on the previous page, because those places would be a better fit for you than anywhere in the PNW.
My spouse never yelled in my face about anything, but he does blow off steam. It’s not just the neighborhood, it’s the entire area. We don’t like Olympia much, and that is part of the problem. He works at home so his contacts are all by phone. STEM neighbors we don’t have, although rocket scientists abound.

Greenman brings up valid points of what’s wrong with a lot of rural areas today. He writes like an intelligent person, and I’ve read reviews on other sites from people who had lived in McMinville and moved. Not everyone has good things to say about that town. The best thing is always a visit.

As far as living here, I’m not blaming anyone, this place is what it is. If anything, I’ll blame myself for not standing up to the realtor and my spouse and insting that we rent. It’s what I really wanted to do. I’m disappointed to have moved here and have to move again, but his family lives close to Seattle which is why we picked this state. Where we’ll end up, who knows, although spouse is a die hard west coaster. I don’t think the east coast will be coming up in the future. As for the flannel shirts, they remind me of the Amish men in the town where I grew up. They all dressed very similar and all had beards.
 
Old 12-19-2018, 08:18 PM
 
26,568 posts, read 36,484,295 times
Reputation: 29753
I think you're being too hard on yourself. If he pushed buying a home instead of renting for awhile to see if it's a good fit, he bears some responsibility for this disastrous move. Renting for awhile is really smart, and with his job being portable, you're in a good position to try out different communities.

Not really interested in analyzing Greenman, but I will say that although he uses words extremely well, the personal angst is palatable. I don't think he stuck around here long; made a few posts about how Oregon sucks and then ran who knows where.

I have no idea of whether McMinnville is right for you, but you may have less chance of running into mattresses in front yards in wine country than in Olympia. Too bad he's hellbent on staying on the West Coast because some of those towns in upstate New York sound pretty nice.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-19-2018 at 08:34 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Oregon

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top