Oregon Property Taxes

[smalloch]

Thank God that people are paying attention to the debt we are leaving the next generation. I feel that I am already drowning in debt just trying to save for my kids' college expenses, and they are under seven. The attitude "just take care of your own kid" sounds great but I know that they are still going to have to get loans even though it seems like we are sacrificing vacations, free time with them (to work to pay off our own loans). The tuition just gets higher and higher and I get sick of people here (especially on the west coast) who only look after themselves.

[janb]

SO... OR taxes ; use the NAV column or the RMV column?

state aver ~ $15/$1000?
lows ~ $8/$1000?

Originally Posted by smalloch

... I feel that I am already drowning in debt just trying to save for my kids' college expenses, and they are under seven. ....

plan "B", have them pay for their own,

Ours did that, as did we, and those b4 us. It keeps them on task Each graduated w/ honors and less than $17k debt, currently locked for 20 yrs at 4.7%, (both did 'Running Start', Jr and Sr HS @ Jr College, free , not exactly, since I DO pay taxes... ) They both only worked summers, but made good money - Alaska Fishing for one, and Wildland Fire, 'engine boss' for other (since he had been in S&R since age 16)

We homeschooled, (pre-Grade 10) and built houses as learning projects (which they hated , especially shovel, concrete, on sheetrock work - me too, but even mom shovels...and runs the dozer ) They each have equity to buy their own houses, (tied up in family 1031's) but I would not let them use for college (cheaper to borrow at 2.8% at the time). I offered to help them buy duplex / 4 plex during college to rent to friends, but each declined (their choice). Ironically my youngest got to pay $350/month to share a 4 bedroom duplex (which one of the student's owned 2 of... He was raking in $350x13/month (and only had one roomate on his side... he sold both as soon as he graduated and pocketed over $200k in gains + the postive cash flow during college (he drove a nice car...and didn't eat "top ramen") He's off to Europe for a year, then 'free' grad school.

Our kids also had 'earned income' from age 10, which went into their 'ROTH IRA's (which is NOT considered in 'individual contribution' for college financial aid ) - I always paid them decent, but not well, and contributed an equal amount or more to their ROTH's (income= Farm work, we had a berry / orchard, + maint work on my rental props, (lots of painting / yard work, gutter cleaning, parking lot coating...and machining / welding / drafting and computer design and surveying for my eng. company.) A much better solution is to 'swap kids / w friends' for work (you use your buddy's kids, and they use yours) Kids work harder for others, and it is a good learning experience for becoming an 'employee'. (they will likely be a few steps ahead of the pack at by time, and hopefully smart enough to skip that era - grunt)

so... note, there are some options to 'drowning in debt' for kids education.

plan 'C' = consider the 'rules for financial aid', (as appropriate in 10 yrs)what would have worked in my case...(if my wife would have parted with our 'retreat'/ National Scenic Area view...) go buy a farm the year before kids apply for FAFSA. Put EVERYTHING (all marketable assets) into that Except your 'retirement' (hint, buy a prop that is adjacent to a commercial growth area, with potential for 'rezone') Take a leave from your job, and spend a year at home with the kids, show farm income, then ALL assets associated to farm are excluded from 'family contribution' (including the house). Thus kids get 'subsidized' aid, and lots of it! Can't beat that. Kids are also eligible for 'work study' jobs if eligible for aid. The as soon as kids get benefits awarded as seniors, sell the farm (by then you can qualify for LTCG). Take them on an extended 'graduation trip (I did not do this...b'cuz, I'm paying $80k in federal taxes on gain, since 'the farm' turned into UGA(commercial)' was not my primary residence)

Plan 'D' - buy a rental prop in a college town of choice, or just any income prop, NOW with the $$ you are saving, then... in 10 yrs, 1031 it into a prop for them in college town of their choice (be cautious how you 'gift' it, being aware of 'golddigger' future spouses / liabilities of youthful drivers)

If you save and scrimp, they will get little or no aid, as ~25% of your assets are considered available for 'Family Contribution', as well as 100% of theirs (Except IRA's ...) IMHO -($.02...) The college savings programs just add more available money to the pot, cutting potential aid. I think it is a bad deal... higher ed seems to be 'pretty smart'. My kids were really bummed when in their senior yr, I applied for FAFSA, and even with $150k in severance income I qualified for more aid that they did their entire program... (it really IS a RIP) I couldn't take aid, cuz I'm going to school for free on a NAFTA program, and will graduate in May.(again...after 30yrs in the salt mines...) following them by a yr.

[RodFarlee]

For others, we're referring to Oregon Property Tax Statistics
http://www.oregon.gov/DOR/STATS/303-405-06-toc.shtml
Table A-2 Tax Rate by County on page 12.

Originally Posted by janb

SO... OR taxes ; use the NAV column or the RMV column?

state aver ~ $15/$1000?
lows ~ $8/$1000?

Yes.
The table shows both Real Market Value and Net Assessed Value.
Measure 50 reset NAV back 2 years, and capped overall increases to 3%, so NAV is slowly falling behind RMV (see Exhibit 4 and discussion on page 6 for details).
Taxes are actually based on NAV, but the table also shows what the rates would be if RMV were still used.

Curry and Josephine counties (Brookings, Grants Pass) are noted for their low rates, Multnomah (Portland) for it's high rates.

Regarding financial aid and savings for education, lots of wise advice there, but most kids are not blessed with parents who can rearrange their working/financial lives to maximize aid, and the available pool of aid is falling while tuitions are rising. Our public policies that are widening the gap in society, just the opposite of policies that built the middle class in the 1950's-60s. Do we want such policies?

I hope not. The result would be a nation of McMansions and shacks, haves and have-nots... no middle class left. It's happening.

[yakker]

Janb,
I like the way you think. I've always been a proponent of making kids take responsibility for their lot in life, at least within reason, although sometimes I can't resist giving one or the other of my three girls a nice gift. I've always been careful to draw a definite line between a gift and an entitlement. When my kids were young they asked me one time what I was going to leave them when I died. I told them "nothing". After they stopped crying I told them that the nature of a gift is that it is a surprise and that it should be unexpected. It sickens me how some hold an inheritance over their children's head as a way to keep them in line. Of course we've set up a trust for them, but they don't need to know anything about that.

RodFarlee,
The disappearance of the middle class is upon us indeed. We can thank unions in America for forcing corporations to pay decent wages, although they are quickly becoming a thing of the past as well. The unions that remain are largely Democratic mouthpieces that do little for their members, and who have strayed from their original purpose. Now they simply protect the worst workers while making no allowance for the exceptional individual. In addition, at least in California, our municipalities are being bankrupted by decades of wage and benefit increases, and retirement packages that far outstrip those of private enterprise. Sorry for getting off-topic, but you hit a nerve.

[janb]

Thanks Rod, I've downld'd File but... I don't have HiSpd, and pay by the minute for Slowwww dial-up (bummer of 'the boonies') and as well known... OR has many funding challenges, no the least of which are schools. I'm not keen on adminisration / teachers unions, but feel many teachers are great and passionate, tho I do feel we are losing this breed.

RE: Middle class - yes, this is tragic for our country. Since I've lived in Asia and Europe (as a 'worker bee', not manager 'class') I note this is not gonna be pretty, and will tough for the average U.S. citizen. We have very few advocates, and a legislative 'election process' that is flawed. ("Legislative Powers", I feel were done with very wise foresight) The 'hollywood' style election process (spending ADV $$ in urban counties, to swing vote of whole state) is not good for populace or legislation / representation of the majority who pay the bills to run the states and grow the jobs. Voters in U.S. are not too informed of the issues and consequences of their vote, as 'real data' is not included in the campaign. I've been an advocate thet 'incumbents' should only campaign on voting and legislative record (no ads) challengers should be limited to 'workable solutions' and abilities to persuade positive change.

RE; gifting to kids - yakker... we've done the same (put assets into trust), tho the kids get metered distributions (of which they do not know, yet...), and < 50%, the rest goes to charity and some destitute family (due to illness/divorce...) We set up a 'family foundation' about 10 yrs ago when stock was high (pre Y2k) so we can continue gifting to charities as a family legacy, and kids will take over increasing responsibility. We live very cheaply, and prefer to give away excess (I drive a $35 car that gets 50 MPG on fryer grease, my wife has our 'limo'...it gets 52mpg, and cost $2000 ) I would really like something that didn't leak water, living in western WA..., but I will move to drier climate

off topic - sorry... I'll keep it short.
RE: College funding "plan 'E' get a job, or have spouse get a job at the college of choice (check for benefits 1st ) My academic advisor in the private college I attend, took a PT job 10 yrs ago: 2 free degrees for her + each of her kids... and now she is a program director and still working PT That was the equivalent of ~$300,000 in educational benefits and each of the kids ended up with a super 'mate' This gal is very sharp, she wins 'hands down', in my book! Great health care benefits too, assisting their family through some extended illnesses

[freedom]

I have to disagree, the middle class is growing not shrinking. What is growing is the definition of what makes up a typical middle class. Anyone that desires to be middle class in America can be. It is a choice of how much effort one wants to put into material acquisitions, or sacrafice of time and family.

[RodFarlee]

Freedom, I'm not understanding you. Middle and low income Oregonians have not seen incomes grow over the last ten years; all income growth (above inflation) has been in the top 25%, and most of that in the top 5%. Housing, medical insurance and educational costs have far outstripped income growth for most households. This isn't limited to Oregon, it's national. Google "income gap Oregon" and read all you want.

Attachment copyright 2004 Sightline Institute, Seattle, used with permission.

[freedom]

Well this is not the case in Southern Oregon. Home ownership is through the roof; unemployment is under 6%, summer time under 5%.

Any time there is growth, it is going to be better for those with means, (bank backing, good credit, cash, assets) but for those that are connected to the movers and shakers their quality of life improves as well.

The medical, fuel, food inflation I agree with you on, it definitely hits the middle and lower much harder. This state would do much better if they were pro business, and industry. They seem bent on making it on the building industry and tourism, some agriculture and not off of the states greatest resource- TIMBER.

Google middle class, there are national stats that say it has improved and some say it hasn't. My reality where I live is it has improved, but then middle class to me is Job, home, car, vacation time, and a toy or two.

Freedom