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Old 09-22-2020, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
13,159 posts, read 6,626,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airemp76 View Post
its still smolderin, it could fire back up any time it can
It was smoldering the days after the fire. It wasn't smoldering 10 days later. But they finally opened it up anyway.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
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Germany can't be compared to a place like Oregon (or any other in the American West). It's small in size, densely populated and highly developed. Even in 'rural' Germany, towns are rarely more than 2-3 miles away from each other. You don't have large wilderness areas like the Willamette National Forest or Mt Hood National Forest. To give you a comparison - the Berchtesgarden National Park in the Bavarian Alps is 51,600 acres, the Willamette National Forest alone is 1,678,000 acres.


As a result municipal fire departments can pretty reliably jump on developing forest fires when they're just starting. One, because it's only a relatively short drive there from where they're based, two, because there's people around to notice these fires pretty quickly.


In addition, they don't have a dry summer climate. Precipitation tends to max out in summer and winter is the dry season there. In the American Northwest the dry season coincides with the hot season, which naturally spells trouble.



Places like Australia and Russia are more comparable primarily because of the remoteness and scale of the undeveloped lands there. In Russia they often don't even bother trying to fight large fires occurring in remote Siberia.
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Here and there
346 posts, read 250,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward59 View Post
Your best & safest bet would be the Midwest. You won’t have wildfires or major earthquakes & everything is much more affordable here along with being less crowded.

Thats also what I want too.. Omaha is 1st on the list. Cant stand Portland and the suburbs of it too.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:34 PM
 
5,039 posts, read 3,185,985 times
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The west was a great place to live before everyone decided the west was a great place to live...
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Old 09-25-2020, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
13,159 posts, read 6,626,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
The west was a great place to live before everyone decided the west was a great place to live...
So about 1801? I agree.
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:52 AM
 
28,005 posts, read 60,775,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I had to Google Image search that, to see what it looks like. The first thing I notice is that as you say they are near forest, not in them. The pictures show acres of green grass around them and very few trees. That right there should be enough to keep them from burning.

Also I believe Germany has far better firefighting capabilities. Here is one example.



Forest fire north of Berlin brought under control _ News _ DW _ 22.04.2019

Six acres is considered a large fire in Germany, and gets an immediate response of 100 firefighters. A six acre forest fire in Oregon would likely get a response of a dozen firefighters from the local volunteer fire department, if that many of them can get out of bed at 3AM. More would be dispatched only if the fire got out of control. 100 firefighters for six acres = 16.666 firefighters per acre of fire. Contrast that to the 676,000 acres of fires in Oregon and 5,600 firefighters. That is 0.009 firefighters per acre of fire.

If we want to be able to successfully put out fires in Oregon, we need to do it like they do it in Germany, and have a hundred firefighters on the way as soon as a wildfire is reported, and probably a couple of aircraft too. It's pretty hard to put a fire out after it spreads to the entire state.
I lived and worked construction in Austria for a time after graduation... continuing education of a sort.

Most homes are extremely fireproof even with the frequent thunder storms in the alpine regions.

When you think about it the basic building material is concrete in all forms.

Concrete Block Construction, pre-stressed concrete for floors and ceilings and clay tile both fired and not or standing seam copper roofs leaves the only thing to burn is the roof timbers... and they are timbers which is also resistant due to mass.

Typical windows are triple pane adding another level of protection.

Often the wood siding is just decorative or for balcony railings... the balcony floor is typically concrete.

Things are built to last... fire insurance and property tax is very low and many homes have been in the same family going back hundreds of years...

Added benefits are well suited to radiant floor heat and super quiet... my house guests visiting here in the Bay Area often comment on how easy it is to hear noise... people walking or water running in typical Bay Area stick framing post WWII.

Concrete type of construction costs more in part to steel rebar to meet seismic requirements and generally only found in larger commercial construction... even multi story residential here is stick as some spectacular fires like Santana Row in San Jose and Oakland have seen... complete or nearly complete gone in spectacular bonfires.

Cities like Oakland where I live make it costly and time consuming to remove trees from your own property to the point I know owners that simply let nature take its course... nothing proactive about that.

As a side note all of my euro colleagues were members of local volunteer fire departments with history that goes back generations... fully equipped fire houses and equipment ready to go... large meeting hall because it is also a social function... fortunate to have been invited to some events... the training is very comprehensive.

Think about every home in rural locations having a trained firefighter... when the siren or now text goes out employers must let those called leave...

Some of the devastating fires have been hay barn/farm fires in older structures... wet hay can spontaneous combust and every year there are losses... farmers trying to bring in hay to beat bad weather.

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 09-25-2020 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:54 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,839 posts, read 97,387,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
The west was a great place to live before everyone decided the west was a great place to live...
Couldn't rep you for this gem!
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
13,159 posts, read 6,626,152 times
Reputation: 17881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I lived and worked construction in Austria for a time after graduation... continuing education of a sort.

Most homes are extremely fireproof even with the frequent thunder storms in the alpine regions.

When you think about it the basic building material is concrete in all forms.

Concrete Block Construction, pre-stressed concrete for floors and ceilings and clay tile both fired and not or standing seam copper roofs leaves the only thing to burn is the roof timbers... and they are timbers which is also resistant due to mass.

Typical windows are triple pane adding another level of protection.

Often the wood siding is just decorative or for balcony railings... the balcony floor is typically concrete.

Things are built to last... fire insurance and property tax is very low and many homes have been in the same family going back hundreds of years...

Added benefits is well suited to radiant floor heat and super quiet... my house guests visiting often comment on how easy it is to hear people walking or water running in typical Bay Area stick framing post WWII.

This type of construction costs more in part to steel rebar to meet seismic requirements and generally only found in larger commercial construction... even multi story residential here is stick as some spectacular fires like Santana Row in San Jose and Oakland have seen... complete or nearly complete gone in spectacular bonfires.

Cities like Oakland where I live make it costly and time consuming to remove trees from your own property to the point I know owners that simply let nature take its course... nothing proactive here.

As a side note all of my colleagues were members of local volunteer fire departments with history that goes back generations... fully equipped fire houses and equipment ready to go... large meeting hall because it is also a social function... fortunate to have been invited to some events... the training is very comprehensive.

Thinks about every home in rural locations having a trained firefighter... when the siren or now text goes out employers must let those called leave...

Some of the devastating fires have been hay barn/farm fires in older structures... wet hay can spontaneous combust and every year there are losses... farmers trying to bring in hay to beat bad weather.
When Santana Row happened, that was when I figured out that when "The Big One" hits San Francisco, it's going to be an exact repeat of 1906. Some damage from the earthquake, and every thing else will burn in firestorms. Think of dozens of San Bruno pipeline explosions going off all over the Bay Area at the same time as the earthquake ruptures the gas lines, and no where near enough resources to put out all the resulting fires.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:40 PM
 
28,005 posts, read 60,775,261 times
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2020 has been the year or come comeuppance regarding resources... friend near Estacada Oregon learned there would be no fire response... other than rescue where possible.

Fires in California and Oregon show there simply are not enough resources to fight multiple events occurring at the same time...

One of my friends was off fighting fires and lost his home and that of his in-laws in the Santa Cruz fire... his wife and child were on their own.

A little off topic... I was called into work during the looting... multiple alarms and I am first call... arrived to find looters ransacking the hospital clinic... multiple 911 calls only to be told police are not responding... when I asked what should I do I was told to leave when safe...

I use to think the stories of peppers and such fantasy but 2020 has shown you may be very much alone reliant on your own resources when the blank hits the fan...
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 16,462,239 times
Reputation: 25182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
The west was a great place to live before everyone decided the west was a great place to live...
Most of the state still is, except for the over populated urban areas. It's too bad that the dwindling rural population has eliminated the one and two room elementary schools, rural markets and taverns. One of my very favorite watering holes 50 years ago was the Broadacres Tavern outside Woodburn. It had checked table cloths, window curtains, two tournament leather pocket pool tables that you rented from the bartender for 25 cents a stick, and served broasted chicken.

Many rural amenities have vanished over time. Before I-5 was built, hwy 99 was an experience. Granted, it was a slow experience, but there was never a shortage of things to see or places to stop. The interstate killed a lot of little rural communities.

I'm not old enough to remember when Cape Kiwanda stretched all the way to Haystack Rock, but I remember it stretching halfway there. You could walk way out on the cape. You can't blame people for that change, but it still seems weird to me that people still call Cape Kiwanda a cape.

Almost everyone lives in the urban areas now, which are pretty safe from wildfires but terribly inconvenient.
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