Hoosiers looking to plant roots in...Oregon??? (Portland, Medford: home, employment)

[malachai23]

Here's a website that shows a few pictures of Redmond.
Yahoo! Image Detail for http://www.edforco.org/images/s_REDMONdowtown.jpg

[Fiddlehead]

Hi DerbyFever,

About to sign off for the night, but will add. Bugs are not much of a problem in S. Oregon at least. We do get some ground nests of yellowjacket wasps in August that can be nasty in the woods, but generally not buggy. The mountains can be hellaceous in June though with mosquitos.

As for politics. Ashland is pretty far left, Medford a bit right, the other towns are in between. We tease each other a bit, but nothing too much to worry about there.

Brownness. Well, that is a tough one in Oregon. The places that are wet enough to stay green through summer (Coast, W. Cascades, Willamette Valley) are very cloudy and rainy. The places that get sun, dry out. It is the case on the whole West Coast. Since we get very little rain in summer, the only way to stay green is to have a very long rainy winter, or cool, cloudy summers. Not the daily afternoon thunderstorms you are used to in summer. Just a difference that comes with the territory. One benefit of it, however, is that the geography is very diverse. North slopes and south slope will have different vegetation, as will east and west slopes, low and high elevations, valley bottoms and ridges,etc. We have great landscape diversity so you can find many types on landscapes in a single viewshed. Oregon is a kaleidoscope.

[DerbyFever]

Originally Posted by malachai23

Really, Bend is quite picturesque - not depressing at all!!!! It is not the same type of "dry and dusty" that you are envisioning. Oregon's high desert is actually a very unique and stunningly gorgeous landscape. It is not your "dusty Southern Florida" (I've been there, I know *exactly* what you are talking about!!), nor is it your SW cactus or California Joshua Tree type desert. Yes, an actual visit to the Bend area to see it for yourself would be ideal, but in the meantime you can look at pics online.

OK, this is exactly what I needed to hear, thanks malachi23! The only dry & dusty I have as my mental comparison is SoFL so since the Bend region isn't like that and has stunningly gorgeous going for it, you're right, I just need to experience it for myself to get the true feel. I re-looked at Kelly's Bend pics and, since that's apparently a truer representation than the retouched pics, I studied them more carefully. I see what you mean and I think there'd be enough green-ness. Where we live gets much browner & for longer periods of time than people probably realize. While I LOVED Portland & the Gorge area, I think in the end there wouldn't be enough sun on a consistent basis. The dilemma in finding a place is figuring out how much sun to give up in the trade off of finding enough green, since the 2 in their purest forms are incompatible. It sounds like the Bend area would be a good compromise, though I'm not sure about the Ashland area. Another place we're considering is Boise, ID, though in the end OR has much more appeal to me. Still if anyone has a comparison for Boise I'd be curious to hear.

Originally Posted by malachai23

Nope - no salt on the roads in Oregon. It's bad for the environment - you know, gets into ground water, etc.

And yet another reason I think the PNW would be a great "fit" for our personalities. Being pro-environment only makes common sense to me but it's perplexing to me what a foreign concept that is in our parts--when you bring things like this up you tend to get some strange reactions. I'm sure people just habituate to whatever beliefs/trends/etc. are more pervasive in their area. There's so many wonderful things about our part of the country so I don't want to bash it but unfortunately being environmentally-conscious is not one of them.

Originally Posted by malachai23

Hey - just wondering, have you also considered Redmond? It is a small town just north of Bend and I really like it a lot. It, like Sisters, has changed a lot over the past few years and gotten a bit more "upscale" - but it still retains a lot of what made it the western town I loved to visit as a kid. It has some great little home cookin' cafes, art galleries, independent shops, etc. It's a bit larger than Sisters but nowhere close to as large as Bend. I don't know - just a thought.

Truth be told, we haven't spent much time looking at Redmond but I will definitely do so. I think how we'll approach the whole relocation is narrowing our broad search to regions (ie broad areas of Bend, Ashland, Boise, etc.), then come spring we'll see where there are job postings for me. That will obviously slim our choices down and from that point we can explore the larger regions more seriousl and become more discriminating. Case in point, Madras had a job opening this year...if we'd have been ready this year, we would've explored that entire area more seriously. Looking at the Madras schools & town, that isn't a place we'd choose to live nor does is it realistic to drive from Bend or Sisters to there for work each day. At that point we definitely would've been looking at Redmond, Terrabonne, or some nearby place to live. Madras is still quite a drive from either place and the drive in the winter would've concerned me, but those are bridges we never had to cross b/c those options weren't really on the table since we weren't ready--just an example. So that's my rationale for exploring Bend/Sisters and Ashland/Jacksonville as regions of interest and not making much effort [yet] to distinguish among the towns in a region.

I know when the big decision of where to actually plant roots has to be made, we'll be very selective about looking at the differences from town to town in the region we've chosen. But for now, the broad search is simply just to filter in & out which regions we want to explore as possibilities. Ultimately a lot of our decisions may be made for us when we see what the future holds in job postings (or lack thereof). Still, I consider myself very fortunate I have a job that's in demand with a national shortage of supply. I've done some checking and OR is no exception to that, a blessing and a curse I guess. I'm such a forward thinker that I need to do most of the research and exploration upfront so that when the high-stakes decisions must be made we have all the info. on the table and have already been considering it for months. Then it doesn't feel like the weight of the world is coming down to a single decision that must be made in a short amount of time. Yes, I'm too Type A for my own good.

[DerbyFever]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

About to sign off for the night, but will add. Bugs are not much of a problem in S. Oregon at least. We do get some ground nests of yellowjacket wasps in August that can be nasty in the woods, but generally not buggy. The mountains can be hellaceous in June though with mosquitos.
As for politics. Ashland is pretty far left, Medford a bit right, the other towns are in between. We tease each other a bit, but nothing too much to worry about there.

Thanks, Fiddlehead, both points good to know. Not our biggest issues/concerns but these relatively small things will inevitably influence our decision.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Brownness. Well, that is a tough one in Oregon. The places that are wet enough to stay green through summer (Coast, W. Cascades, Willamette Valley) are very cloudy and rainy. The places that get sun, dry out. It is the case on the whole West Coast. Since we get very little rain in summer, the only way to stay green is to have a very long rainy winter, or cool, cloudy summers. Not the daily afternoon thunderstorms you are used to in summer. Just a difference that comes with the territory.

And once again we seek to strike the right balance of sun, dry & brown vs. overcast, wet, & green. Again, the Bend region sounds like it might be a good compromise...but also throwing Ashland & Boise into the mix of things.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

One benefit of it, however, is that the geography is very diverse. North slopes and south slope will have different vegetation, as will east and west slopes, low and high elevations, valley bottoms and ridges,etc. We have great landscape diversity so you can find many types on landscapes in a single viewshed. Oregon is a kaleidoscope.

I love the idea of diverse geography & diversity in landscape. This sounds fabulous!! In our neck of the woods we have rolling hills & we actually live in a town called Floyds Knobs (knobs are larger than hills with steep dropoffs & great views of Louisville but not big enough to be mtns.) but you have to drive a few hours south to get to serious mountains & an hour or so north to get to serious flat. Having lots of options nearby sounds almost too good to be true! I promise not to tell all the Midwesterners your Oregonian secret so there isn't a massive influx.

[malachai23]

Originally Posted by DerbyFever

Having lots of options nearby sounds almost too good to be true! I promise not to tell all the Midwesterners your Oregonian secret so there isn't a massive influx.

Too late. It has already happened

[malachai23]

Originally Posted by DerbyFever

While I LOVED Portland & the Gorge area, I think in the end there wouldn't be enough sun on a consistent basis. The dilemma in finding a place is figuring out how much sun to give up in the trade off of finding enough green, since the 2 in their purest forms are incompatible. It sounds like the Bend area would be a good compromise, though I'm not sure about the Ashland area. Another place we're considering is Boise, ID, though in the end OR has much more appeal to me. Still if anyone has a comparison for Boise I'd be curious to hear.

You are correct about sun being inconsistent in Portland and the Gorge (Gorge west of Hood River, anyhow). Actually it *is* consistent - consistenly behind the clouds!! LOL Now the Gorge does extend east and right about at Hood River is where the climate (and landscape) changes from damp/lush/rainy to dry/deserty/brownish. Of course you will get more sun along the river east of Hood River.

Boise! I didn't realize you were considering Boise. I personally like Boise. But I'm no expert on it. In fact, I haven't been there in about 5 years. It has a lot of similarities to Bend. The Boise metro area is a lot larger though - like 4x the size of Bend metro. They both have a similar "feel" I think. But something to keep in mind about Boise is that it is a bit more isolated than Bend. Bend is only about 3 1/2 hours from Portland, but Boise is 6 1/2 hours from Portland and about 5 hours from Salt Lake City. That's in the summer of course. Add more time for winter driving!

I would venture to say Bend is slightly more progressive/liberal than Boise. Both have conservative elements, but there is also a decent sized LDS element in the Boise area. Both have nice little downtowns. But I should probably leave more in-depth comparisons to the folks who *have* been to Boise in the past 5 years!

Originally Posted by DerbyFever

Being pro-environment only makes common sense to me but it's perplexing to me what a foreign concept that is in our parts--when you bring things like this up you tend to get some strange reactions. I'm sure people just habituate to whatever beliefs/trends/etc. are more pervasive in their area. There's so many wonderful things about our part of the country so I don't want to bash it but unfortunately being environmentally-conscious is not one of them.

Yes, I know what you are saying. It was one of the very first things I noticed when I moved here and it was quite a shock. I've never lived anywhere before that wasn't at least somewhat focused on eco-friendliness. It's too bad, and hopefully someday the attitude around here will change.

Originally Posted by DerbyFever

Truth be told, we haven't spent much time looking at Redmond but I will definitely do so. I think how we'll approach the whole relocation is narrowing our broad search to regions (ie broad areas of Bend, Ashland, Boise, etc.), then come spring we'll see where there are job postings for me. That will obviously slim our choices down and from that point we can explore the larger regions more seriousl and become more discriminating.

Yes, that makes total sense. I think the biggest difference between the Ashland area and the Bend area is *not* the climate. I'd say it's more along the lines of attitude/culture (Ashland being kind of upscale/new age and Bend being more down-to-earth) and also don't forget city size. I don't know how important that is to you, but I lived in Ashland for 5 years and it just felt very, very isolated. To some people that would be a positive though. I think Bend (and Boise) are large enough to be functional cities - you know, you won't see the very same people every single day. They won't all know your business. You will have many more choices between stores/shops/restaurants etc. (not only good for variety, but also I feel like it gives you more power as a consumer to find the best deals, the best product, the best service).

Originally Posted by DerbyFever

Case in point, Madras had a job opening this year...if we'd have been ready this year, we would've explored that entire area more seriously. Looking at the Madras schools & town, that isn't a place we'd choose to live nor does is it realistic to drive from Bend or Sisters to there for work each day. At that point we definitely would've been looking at Redmond, Terrabonne, or some nearby place to live. Madras is still quite a drive from either place and the drive in the winter would've concerned me, but those are bridges we never had to cross b/c those options weren't really on the table since we weren't ready--just an example. So that's my rationale for exploring Bend/Sisters and Ashland/Jacksonville as regions of interest and not making much effort [yet] to distinguish among the towns in a region.

Yes, I agree - between Madras and Bend would be way too far of a commute - even in the summer!! But I personally wouldn't hesitate to commute between Bend and Sisters, or Bend and Redmond. It's not like there is much traffic out there! And both of those highways are just straight shots - no crazy curves or mountain passes or anything. But I totally understand that all of that is a moot point right now - the job will need to come first.

Originally Posted by DerbyFever

I'm such a forward thinker that I need to do most of the research and exploration upfront so that when the high-stakes decisions must be made we have all the info. on the table and have already been considering it for months. Then it doesn't feel like the weight of the world is coming down to a single decision that must be made in a short amount of time. Yes, I'm too Type A for my own good.

Believe me, I understand completely! I can't move back to OR until my house sells (which may be NEVER at the rate the economy is recovering!) but yet I've been obsessing for months over what town to plop myself down in once I get back! And I'm FROM there!!! LOL

[Lootmeister]

Im surprised nobody here has mentioned "The Dalles" as a place to consider.

No mosquitos, tons of sun, no serious crime, and affordable housing.

Probably the best kept secret in Oregon.

It has had a reputation of being white trashy and redneck, but it's in transition of bettering itself in many ways.

Schools aren't all that great but that's a statewide issue.

It's a great place for families who are big on baseball too. We love our baseball here.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by Lootmeister

Im surprised nobody here has mentioned "The Dalles" as a place to consider.

No mosquitos, tons of sun, no serious crime, and affordable housing.

Probably the best kept secret in Oregon.

It has had a reputation of being white trashy and redneck, but it's in transition of bettering itself in many ways.

Schools aren't all that great but that's a statewide issue.

It's a great place for families who are big on baseball too. We love our baseball here.

Derby has a child with serious allergies and I think the doc said to stay out of the Gorge. So she was looking at central Oregon.

[DerbyFever]

Originally Posted by Silverfall

Derby has a child with serious allergies and I think the doc said to stay out of the Gorge. So she was looking at central Oregon.

This is where things get complicated. The doc we visited in Portland advised against the Gorge/valley area...on the other hand I think I'm realizing that ALL allergists' medical opinions are relative to the area in which they practice. So while he may have felt the Gorge area is a liability for us (myself and my son), the docs here in Louisville metro and data suggest we are living in the single worst place in the nation for allergies in general.

I've been doing my own homework of sorts and looking at national comparative data on allergies (published and viewable on aafa.org) by city. I've reviewed the data from 2005 through 2009--the published data rank orders cities from 1-100 (1 being worst, 100 being best or "least worst" I guess...) Because the data is broken down by fall & spring, I've looked at both seasons and made an arbitrary "cutoff" of cities 80-100. I then looked at over 7 data points the cities that consistently were in the bottom 20% (80-100). We figured this way we weren't excluding cities that had just one bad year nor including cities with just one good year--looking for consistency seemed to be the best way to compare.

Here's what we found...the "best" cities that scored 7 of 7 (i.e., in bottom 20% across all data points) were--in no specific order:
Colorado Springs, CO
Seattle, WA
Spokane, WA

One city "scored" 6/7--Portland, OR!! What a shocker huh?? Two cities were 5/7:
Youngstown, OH (another shocker!)
Fresno, CA

2 additional cities "scored" 4/7:
Toledo, OH
Daytona Beach, FL

Over the past few days we've spent considerable time reviewing these places. Although initially excited & encouraged to see 2 Midwestern cities in Ohio on the list, after looking at temps & a few other things, I think we've ruled them out. Similarly, we can rule out Seattle (although we visited in 08 & loved it, too cool & rainy) and Daytona Beach. I only briefly looked at Fresno and it may be worthy of consideration, I'm not sure.

Colorado Springs...well, we've not seen it first hand but did do a rather comprehensive "scouting" tour of CO in July and were surprisingly disappointed overall. We didn't realize so much of the state was so dry & desert. Naturally I really liked Boulder but it's unaffordable, plus the high amt. of snow in CO in general is not appealing to my husband.

So...this throws Spokane, WA, into the mix, a city we have not even remotely considered. I've looked at the stats. and I have mixed feelings--summer temps. look good but winters look very cold plus quite a bit of snow. Looks high in crime & reading some forum posts sounds like it may be a bit "rednecky"...on the other hand we are coming from Louisville, KY, so I'm sure that's relative as well. Sounds like an up and coming city with lots of potential and I love the descriptions of it being green. Still quite in shock that it "performed" so well in the comps.. (Actually it performed even better than the others b/c it didn't even make the 1-100 list on 3 of the 7 times.)

We've had a lot of discussion about this data & what the criteria are for cities that are included and/or excluded. We simply don't know. I'm assuming "smaller" locales like Bend & Ashland weren't included in the list but again not sure on this. I think I'm going to get in touch with the research dept. at aafa & inquire on this. May be a dead end but I've got nothing to lose.

So...back to the Portland dilemma...although the doc said otherwise, the hard data appears to suggest allergy-wise it could in fact be a good fit for us. Listening to the doc, sounds like we are best steering clear of the Wilamette Valley where allergens that are present tend to be stagnant--this is the precise problem of the Ohio Valley in which we live now. The air simply doesn't move. So Portland is a place we haven't totally ruled in or out and we LOVE the Gorge.

And yes, we have considered the Dalles & Hood River. We visited HR during our July trip. The weather stats look perfect for us--warm summers, cool (but not overly so) nights & winters, still get some snow and FAR less rain than Portland. The problems with both places were two-fold: hubby felt area in general was too small for him to successfully launch a new business (he's currently an entreprenuer with 3 small businesses) and...as you guessed, the schools were less than desirable. The schools were the deal-breaker for me actually. If there are good schools somewhere hidden in the area, I'm receptive. I even looked across the river into Washington but not much luck there either.

One other final random thought...the other very compelling & strong case for the Pacific NW is that this is the only part of the US that is exempt from ragweed--a big allergen for myself and my son. The allergy maps show no ragweed in WA, OR, and a big chunk of ID. Ragweed is a HUGE problem where we live. In fact this past month they've recorded record high amts. that haven't been seen in decades. Yuck!

I can drive myself (and everyone around me) crazy with the data but the bottom line is this: No matter where we move, we'll never escape allergens 100% of the time. We'll always have the tendency to develop new allergies--this is true, on the other hand, if we can evade the big ones and at least live somewhere in which the air has a significantly less concentration of allergens, this would have to be huge! My dysfunctional analogy (that annoys my husband) is this...if you're allergic to cigarette smoke, it's bad to live with 1 smoker but it would be far far worse to live with 10 smokers. Yes, the smoke is there regardless but the concentration in the air increases.

Thanks for all the insights, suggestions, advice, etc. and please keep it coming! I truly appreciate all the thoughts, including the Hood River suggestion--if we could tackle the 2 issues in that area it'd definitely be worthy of strong consideration.

Now that Spokane is in the mix of things, anyone have experience there? Looks like there is a variety of geography and lush/green, both are appealing. Crime looked high but we wouldn't actually be living downtown if we live near a bigger city. We'd look for a "pocket" community like where we live currently. (I also noticed that 2 high schools in the Mead district made Newsweek's top list for the nation...intriguing

[Silverfall]

You know I grew up in Illinois and had horrible hay fever there. Was on allergy meds every fall AND an inhaler.

I get scratchy eyes out here every so often. No meds, no inhaler. I live in the valley. Yes, I don't think you would be problem free out here, but I think it might be more of an occasional irritation. OTOH, you may find that are seriously allergic to something we have out here. I have a friend who had no allergy problems in the valley who moved to Bend and is allergic to a kind of tree out there.

Is is possible for you guys to visit Portland during May and August for a couple of weeks? You know, kind of "test out" the allergy situation?