info about Southern Oregon (Portland, Beaverton: relocation, travel, hospital)

[freedom]

Originally Posted by Alexious

I realize I was painting with a broad brush so to speak. Yes, there are ranchers with legitimate uses for a 1-ton truck that can haul 10k pounds. I know of a few. I apologize if I made it sound like they don't exist.

My point is that when you see all the gigantic SUVs and trucks turning into Safeway, you know that many of them will spend their entire lives on nothing but pavement and their largest loads will be a few 2 x 4's for building a deck. It just irritates me to no end watching these people waste resources so they can get the ego boost of driving a large vehicle. I mean an Explorer isn't big enough? Really? You just HAD to have the Excursion?

I finally got my wife to trade in her 14 mpg pickup for an all-wheel drive car. She has more fun driving, is in a vehicle with much better crash test ratings and we're saving quite a bit of money at the pump.

Finally, I would also like to apologize for hijacking this thread and turning it into rant about how wasteful we all are. If anyone actually remembers the original topic, feel free...

Let them have their ego boost if thats what floats their boat. Wasting resources? A drop in the ocean. If you only new how much fuel is wasted when a jet (mostly military, some commercial) has to drop its load over the ocean to land. The public is more resourcefully conscious than those that are enforcers of environmental bs.
I wish the Excursion was bigger, there are 7 of us, it is high off the ground in order to protect them, like a school bus. Some room for groceries and camping gear. Ours is diesel and gets about 18 mpg on the highway. 90% of the time there are 6 people in it. The math says, very economical........Very comfortable, and we worked hard to afford it. God bless the USA......I'm looking at buying another one, but they quit making them last yr. They did stretch out the Yukon, won't make in diesel until next year.
I also have made my own biodiesel for the last 5 years.

[Larry Caldwell]

I'm not going to get into a flame war, but you entirely misread what I said. I didn't criticise any group, I just said that intolerant people are found of any political persuasion, and that "open minded" depends more on your own predudices than other people's attitudes.

The ongoing sentencing in federal court of the domestic terrorists who burned down logging operations, timber company offices and farms is just the tip of the iceberg. I have been subject to vitriolic attacks just because I raise timber. Certainly not all tree huggers are hate mongers, but a percentage of them are.

For your information, "canned hunts" are generally not possible in Oregon. You can import non-native game animals, under strict regulation of ODFW and keep them confined, but it is illegal to confine a deer/elk/bear etc. in this state. It may be possible to hold a canned hunt for non-native species, but at $20,000 a carcass, with free hunting on millions of acres of federal lands, the competition is tough.

As for tweakers and other criminals, it is just easier to be anonymous in large cities. If you look at the stats, property crimes are much more prevalent in large cities than they are in Southern Oregon, and the majority of property crimes are drug related. I'm sure the Tribune thinks they are performing a public service by focusing public attention on the meth epidemic, but that does not mean it is any worse in Medford than it is in San Francisco. Meth is everywhere.

[Imperial1904]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

Many of the jacked trucks with big tires you see are high clearance vehicles designed to get into the woods on deeply rutted logging roads. If you want to get a job doing fire watch in the summer, for instance, the ads will specify that you have to own a high clearance vehicle.

There is still a lot of work in the woods.

When I see a guy in a suit or a woman at the grocery store jumping out of the truck, I don't think they use their truck for work in the woods. When they have chrome showroom wheels, I doubt that they would take those deep in the woods. The ones I've seen go in the woods will have either a decal on the side or it's just plain obvious where that truck goes.

Originally Posted by karlsch

You should travel a little bit-go to Eastern Oregon-you will find a lot of ranching.

I went through Eastern Oregon once. It all looked the same to me. I see lots of farming in Southern Oregon, I don't know how you guys don't see it, but then again I'm a big city Californian so what do I know about farming? LOL

Originally Posted by furyu

You know, I thought that too, that it wasn't or couldn't be as bad as everyone makes it out to be. But evidently it is. Medford's Mail Tribune runs a weekly statistics report about meth use, number of people arrested on meth charges, etc. The NBC-channel in Medford has had a long running program on the meth problem in the area, airing every Saturday evening. I think the news coverage is fairly extensive. You have to wonder why these local media pay this much attention to this social problem if it is in fact inconsequential.

Well, I grew up in the 'meth capital of the world'. I can remember seeing tweakers on the streets. I've seen what it can do to kids who used and sold meth. I don't see or hear much of that in Southern Oregon. I'm currently reading the meth stats in the Mail Tribune and it doesn't look that bad.

From April 2006 to April 2007, 656 people were arrested on meth-related charges, 564 from the previous year. These stats are for the whole county. That's less than 2 arrests per day. So when you think about it, it really isn't that huge. It's still a problem, but honestly there's really no other news in the area so they have to report something.

[zagyzebra]

Ashland is sort of squeaky clean compared to Medford. We who live in Medford call it "Ashlandia" because of the great number of left-leaning types. Yes, on the surface of things, Medford is more conservative, way more conservative compared to Ashland. But there are SO MANY ex-Calis crawling around that you will find liberal types under every other rock. You just have to have the courage to pick one up and poke around. I am amazed at the generalizations that are tossed around on this board.

[furyu]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

I'm not going to get into a flame war, but you entirely misread what I said. I didn't criticise any group, I just said that intolerant people are found of any political persuasion, and that "open minded" depends more on your own predudices than other people's attitudes.

I have no interest in flame wars either. This is nice board in that regard; people are civilized and well spoken (written?). Yourself included, of course.

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

The ongoing sentencing in federal court of the domestic terrorists who burned down logging operations, timber company offices and farms is just the tip of the iceberg. I have been subject to vitriolic attacks just because I raise timber. Certainly not all tree huggers are hate mongers, but a percentage of them are.

And were the ELF members who engaged in arson attacks on the various lumber interests who, as you mentioned, have been found guilty of domestic terrorism, would you consider their acts of terrorism in the same vein as, say, the attacks of September 11, 2001, or Timothy McVie's bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in April of 1995? Or would you consider these ELF members' actions more aligned with, say, radical political (environmental) activism.

My point is, the new catch words appear to be 'terrorists' and 'terrorism,' that are now bantered about by politicos and the media. Not every violent act motivated by political, religious or philosophical reasons, is an act of terrorism. I'm not condoning what these ELF members did; they certainly need to be punished for doing these things, but to label them domestic terrorists, in my mind, is a bit of a stretch, and is meant only to alarm/induce fear into an inattentive public rather than to engage in intelligent discourse and debates that specifically address the motivations behind these acts of violence. We must question why the government is attempting to broaden the understanding of 'terrorism' to include this type of civil (or 'uncivil' as the case may be) disobedience.

Which gets back to being careful with what we say and how we say it. I respectfully reiterate that I did not misread your original post. Whenever anyone makes a sweeping generality, it will not be narrowly interpreted. When you state, "tree huggers are intolerant," the label of 'tree hugger' is interpreted as "environmentalists" which is a broad swath of the population, most of whom I'm certain are not intolerant and would not burn down your home on a whim. Symantically speaking, your original comment was a condemnation of many innocent people (i.e., those majority of environmentalists who are not intolerant). Whether you intended that or not, it is impossible to interpret it any differently.

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

For your information, "canned hunts" are generally not possible in Oregon. You can import non-native game animals, under strict regulation of ODFW and keep them confined, but it is illegal to confine a deer/elk/bear etc. in this state. It may be possible to hold a canned hunt for non-native species, but at $20,000 a carcass, with free hunting on millions of acres of federal lands, the competition is tough.

I never stated my neighbor engages in these canned hunts in Oregon; he is originally from California, where I know he often returns specifically for hunting purposes. However, he may travel to other states to engage in these canned hunts. I don't know. I've never asked him.

Personally, I think the whole business should go away, in any and all states. It's despicable. I am, yes, intolerant to the idea of canned hunting areas.

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

As for tweakers and other criminals, it is just easier to be anonymous in large cities. If you look at the stats, property crimes are much more prevalent in large cities than they are in Southern Oregon, and the majority of property crimes are drug related. I'm sure the Tribune thinks they are performing a public service by focusing public attention on the meth epidemic, but that does not mean it is any worse in Medford than it is in San Francisco. Meth is everywhere.

No argument there. Meth is everywhere. It is a social problem that 'generally' affects the lower stratum of society more so than the upper levels. That is not to say that people of wealth don't have drug problems, but they are better treated than those who have little or no financial resources.

[nanannie]

Fascinating thread.I wonder,is the coast (Brookings,Gold beach etc) considered in this info of "southern oregon" to you,does it have the same problams with schools,boredom,meth etc as has been mentioned here?

[bluebird39]

Geez... What a thread!

I lived, worked, went to school in Southern Oregon for 16 years. I just don't understand much of this discussion. When I moved there it was at the peak of the logging boom. Ashland was a small college town with a theater festival. It was a great place to raise a family. There was no Walmart, Costco, etc... It's a place suffering from tremendous growing pains, IMO. It's turned from small town to big city in a matter of 10 years, and folks are reeling from the change. It's stressful.

Just deleted a bunch of stuff. It's a heated place to live. Nuff said. Don't miss it. Most of my friends have left. It's just not the same place I came to many years ago.

The coast is a very seasonal place to live. It's beautiful, but not as much going on there. K-Falls is where many young people are moving to FROM the Rogue Valley. It's still affordable there. Not as crazy. Most people here mean the Rogue Valley when they talk about Southern Oregon.

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by bluebird39

Most people here mean the Rogue Valley when they talk about Southern Oregon.

I'm pretty geology oriented, so I draw the line between Northern and Southern Oregon around cottage Grove, where the Coast Range peters out and the Klamath Formation begins to dominate the geology. The Siskiyous are part of the Klamath formation. Strangely, the Blue Mountains and the Siskiyous were formed together and then torn apart. Both the Blues and the Siskiyous are rich in mineral deposits. The Coast Range is just clay and sandstone on a basalt substrate.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by bluebird39

Geez... What a thread!

I lived, worked, went to school in Southern Oregon for 16 years. I just don't understand much of this discussion. When I moved there it was at the peak of the logging boom. Ashland was a small college town with a theater festival. It was a great place to raise a family. There was no Walmart, Costco, etc... It's a place suffering from tremendous growing pains, IMO. It's turned from small town to big city in a matter of 10 years, and folks are reeling from the change. It's stressful.

Just deleted a bunch of stuff. It's a heated place to live. Nuff said. Don't miss it. Most of my friends have left. It's just not the same place I came to many years ago.

The coast is a very seasonal place to live. It's beautiful, but not as much going on there. K-Falls is where many young people are moving to FROM the Rogue Valley. It's still affordable there. Not as crazy. Most people here mean the Rogue Valley when they talk about Southern Oregon.

Where do you live now?

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by furyu

And were the ELF members who engaged in arson attacks on the various lumber interests who, as you mentioned, have been found guilty of domestic terrorism, would you consider their acts of terrorism in the same vein as, say, the attacks of September 11, 2001, or Timothy McVie's bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in April of 1995? Or would you consider these ELF members' actions more aligned with, say, radical political (environmental) activism.

The only difference between McVeigh and the ELF is the scale of the destruction. Morally, they are the same. McVeigh was a radical political activist protesting the attack on the Branch Dravidians by the BATF in Texas. That's why he chose April 19 for the attack.

The definition of terrorist is radical political activism by violent means.