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If any of you know me, you will know I have often complained about the onslaught of wealther exurban Californians invading Southern Oregon, especially Ashland and Medford and usurping locals from real estate. However, on a weekend trip to the Coast pondering the haves and have nots of our country (spurred by the health care debate), I realized that many of our "rich liberals" are undeniably very generous in terms of supporting arts, schools, parks, local businesses, and organic growers, founding museums,etc. While I feel this group of people typically has a way to go to understand the Jeffersonian economy and lifestyle, this generosity is commendable and appreciated.
Point is, the wealthy are not always generous, but ours often are, and that bears thanks from the larger society. I also put this out there to encourage others who do move to Oregon to keep up this trend, it is a great way to show you love your new state.
Yep, we were pushed out of S. Oregon because of the growth, crazy real estate increases, and lack of job opportunities (too many experienced people moving there to retire who successfully competed for advancement positions in our jobs).
But after living in a state that is bleeding residents and shuttering its Main Streets, I now appreciate population growth of towns and cities. The opposite of growth is also a very ugly thing.
I still do feel, though, that the Rogue Valley newcomers could do much more to support the schools there. Another reason we left...
While I feel this group of people typically has a way to go to understand the Jeffersonian economy and lifestyle, this generosity is commendable and appreciated.
I've lived in southern Oregon for decades and I still don't "understand the Jeffersonian economy and lifestyle." Perhaps eight years of university education and twelve years living in the Willamette Valley have immunized me against the kind of world view needed to appreciate it. The State of Jefferson has some of the most unflattering statistics in the state: One after another, SoJ counties rate first, second or third in incidence of drug and alcohol abuse, incidence of child abuse, incidence of spousal abuse, incidence of animal abuse, low levels of higher education attainment, etc. Anecdotal observations about the level of litter on the streets and backwoods dumping also show that poor citizenship and low levels or personal responsibility are rampant.
In my view, the kind of culture that stems from low levels of education and economic opportunity, whether in rural Mississippi, inner city Detroit, Appalachia or southern Oregon is not something to be understood and appreciated just as it is, but something that needs to transformed and brought up to First World standards. Southern Oregon is a beautiful part of the U.S., but it has become somewhat of a misfits' gathering place for people with low basic life skills who weren't able to eke out a living in Portland, Eugene or Sacramento. Many parts of southern Oregon are hovering just above the suburban ghetto threshold.
I've lived in southern Oregon for decades and I still don't "understand the Jeffersonian economy and lifestyle." Perhaps eight years of university education and twelve years living in the Willamette Valley have immunized me against the kind of world view needed to appreciate it. The State of Jefferson has some of the most unflattering statistics in the state: One after another, SoJ counties rate first, second or third in incidence of drug and alcohol abuse, incidence of child abuse, incidence of spousal abuse, incidence of animal abuse, low levels of higher education attainment, etc. Anecdotal observations about the level of litter on the streets and backwoods dumping also show that poor citizenship and low levels or personal responsibility are rampant.
In my view, the kind of culture that stems from low levels of education and economic opportunity, whether in rural Mississippi, inner city Detroit, Appalachia or southern Oregon is not something to be understood and appreciated just as it is, but something that needs to transformed and brought up to First World standards. Southern Oregon is a beautiful part of the U.S., but it has become somewhat of a misfits' gathering place for people with low basic life skills who weren't able to eke out a living in Portland, Eugene or Sacramento. Many parts of southern Oregon are hovering just above the suburban ghetto threshold.
I won't argue with your post, because it has a uncomfortable degree of truth. Especially the drugs. Yuck. However, the incomers who try to regulate all rural land use (protest logging, snowmobiling, etc.), as if we could all open yoga studios and telecommute, is not very endearing. I agree there is plenty of room for improvement, but I think the newcomers (in Ashland, at least) tend to be culturally tethered to urban California more so than taking an interest in rural Oregon. Yes, rural Oregon needs to modernize, but on its own terms, with respect for the rich history and richly productive landscapes it has, not just to sell lavender truffles to tourists (not that there's anything wrong with that..), lead ecotours everywhere, or be the "next Napa Valley." A strictly natural-resource based, tourist, or "foo foo" based economies would all be too narrow.
However, to keep my appreciative vibe going, the generosity and creativity of many incomers is appreciated.
Yep, we were pushed out of S. Oregon because of the growth, crazy real estate increases, and lack of job opportunities (too many experienced people moving there to retire who successfully competed for advancement positions in our jobs).
But after living in a state that is bleeding residents and shuttering its Main Streets, I now appreciate population growth of towns and cities. The opposite of growth is also a very ugly thing.
I still do feel, though, that the Rogue Valley newcomers could do much more to support the schools there. Another reason we left...
Great to read your posts bluebird39,
Not many people admit to having a change of perspective. Yes, I think I would agree that a declining, depressed economy is quite different from Oregon, with our everpresent fear of growth. Yes, housing was insane here. Now, it is a smoldering crater. Crazy. I love Southern Oregon, but it has its rough spots. That's for sure! Getting snow up in Pendleton?
The State of Jefferson has some of the most unflattering statistics in the state: Anecdotal observations about the level of litter on the streets and backwoods dumping also show that poor citizenship and low levels or personal responsibility are rampant.
In my view, the kind of culture that stems from low levels of education and economic opportunity, whether in rural Mississippi, inner city Detroit, Appalachia or southern Oregon is not something to be understood and appreciated just as it is, but something that needs to transformed and brought up to First World standards. Southern Oregon is a beautiful part of the U.S., but it has become somewhat of a misfits' gathering place for people with low basic life skills who weren't able to eke out a living in Portland, Eugene or Sacramento. Many parts of southern Oregon are hovering just above the suburban ghetto threshold.
What you describe is no different than the outskirts of many other Western US College/Tourist towns that I've seen, who are inhabited by rich individuals with bachelors degrees, and a significant percentage of second homes.
1) Flagstaff and Sedona are surrounded by very poor areas, lots of litter on the hwys as you suggest, huge meth problems, etc.
2) Santa Fe, same thing. Northern New Mexico is poor.
3) Durango, CO; Salida, CO; same thing. Western Colorado is struggling.
4) Mammoth Lakes, CA - go down to Bishop/Lone Pine and it is very poor.
5) Boulder, CO and Ft. Collins are to some extent part of the Denver metro and the Front Range towns and rural areas are probably in much better economic shape than these other areas.
This nation has a class divide between net producers (who pay tax dollars) and net consumers (who receive tax dollars). We need to decrease unemployment to fix this.
(I could come on here and advocate a solution -- increasing mining, agriculture, and timbering, and cancelling urban growth boundaries, but that's completely beyond the topics for the state threads. IF anyone by chance agrees, PM me and you'll be the first ever to agree with me about anything on City-Data<sarcasm roll eyes>)
What you describe is no different than the outskirts of many other Western US College/Tourist towns that I've seen, who are inhabited by rich individuals with bachelors degrees, and a significant percentage of second homes.
1) Flagstaff and Sedona are surrounded by very poor areas, lots of litter on the hwys as you suggest, huge meth problems, etc.
2) Santa Fe, same thing. Northern New Mexico is poor.
3) Durango, CO; Salida, CO; same thing. Western Colorado is struggling.
4) Mammoth Lakes, CA - go down to Bishop/Lone Pine and it is very poor.
5) Boulder, CO and Ft. Collins are to some extent part of the Denver metro and the Front Range towns and rural areas are probably in much better economic shape than these other areas.
This nation has a class divide between net producers (who pay tax dollars) and net consumers (who receive tax dollars). We need to decrease unemployment to fix this.
(I could come on here and advocate a solution -- increasing mining, agriculture, and timbering, and cancelling urban growth boundaries, but that's completely beyond the topics for the state threads. IF anyone by chance agrees, PM me and you'll be the first ever to agree with me about anything on City-Data<sarcasm roll eyes>)
Ha! I'll agree with this. The problems of Southern Oregon are not limited to Southern Oregon! Ponder that....And to hijack my own thread, I will also claim I like New Mexican food better than Oregonian food. Not sure if that is being agreeable or not.
However, the incomers who try to regulate all rural land use (protest logging, snowmobiling, etc.), as if we could all open yoga studios and telecommute, is not very endearing. I agree there is plenty of room for improvement, but I think the newcomers (in Ashland, at least) tend to be culturally tethered to urban California more so than taking an interest in rural Oregon. Yes, rural Oregon needs to modernize, but on its own terms, with respect for the rich history and richly productive landscapes it has, not just to sell lavender truffles to tourists (not that there's anything wrong with that..), lead ecotours everywhere, or be the "next Napa Valley." A strictly natural-resource based, tourist, or "foo foo" based economies would all be too narrow.
FH- that's interesting because Durango-Ignacio (as you've said before is similar to Ashland), also has lots of yoga and tellecommuting, with a quality high speed internet system like Ashland. Durango has also moved to the left.
As for the newcomers to S. Oregon being culturally tethered (yr words) coming from urban California, that's essentially the same in Boulder, Durango, Mammoth Lakes, and many other tourist towns surrounded by rural poverty. Flagstaff college students have yuppie parents in Phoenix. Lake Tahoe is tied to Northern California. The Durango threads complain about liberals and gays from NY can CA buying their real estate.
What I also see is the affluent leaving the City centers. They flee to gated communities in the suburbs, with long commutes. Or, if they can tellecommute, they more to Ashland, Boulder, Durango, Flagstaff, etc.
Could it be that there's no way to "integrate" these new highly educated tellecommuters with the rural population? These groups probably share fundamentally irreconcivable philosophical differences.
Could it be that there's no way to "integrate" these new highly educated tellecommuters with the rural population? These groups probably share fundamentally irreconcivable philosophical differences.
It is possible that they cannot be reconciled. But the exurban newcomers should not, then, boss the locals around and protest timber sales, thinnings, grazing,snowmobiling, hunting, development,ask for dam removals, road closures, etc., etc. They need to earnestly engage and learn or expect to be resented or even hated. We don't need more stratified, self-absorbed, meddling, elite subcultures in this country, we already have Wall Street. (ha, getting back my angry white, moderate, working class liberal mojo back,all that introspection and kindness was just so hard....).
And I just have to say WOW! to Brenda. Pretty harsh. Don't know when you lived there, but we moved there before there wasn't even a Wal-Mart in town, and it was a wonderful place. Still is. Drugs and poverty are indeed present (worst place I've ever lived for Meth), but to compare it to the other places you mentioned... WOW! Have you ever been to inner city Detroit, rural Mississippi, or Appalachians? Because I've lived in or near all 3 places, and just have to scratch my head at the comparison. I also worked for Jackson County, OR and saw every single house and neighborhood. Worked for RVMC, and saw the impact of drugs and families. Yes, there is poverty and drugs, but nothing like I saw in the rural deep South, where I grew up.
And we're still trying to sell a house in Michigan that's bleeding us dry and then some. Half the town's shops have closed since we lived there, and the unemployment in our area was over 25%. So yes, I now see growth as a good thing!
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