What's the deal with the amount of things to do in a city (Orlando: area, compared)

[ARC]

Well, I was a poor college student when I visited the Smithsonian every weekend so I don't think what you said is true. I also worked in a corporation in Dallas and was very much middle class. I was rewarded from time to time with free symphony tickets to the Morton Meyerson. I like movies, too. It's a matter of being educated and well balanced, not a matter of social class. I also think that if this is the prevailing attitude in Orlando then I understand why I have such a difficult time living here! LOL!

Originally Posted by THASPECIAL

lol....i dont even know what tha f that is and most middle/lower class americans dont know or care about that stuff in thier weekend lives....lol....i would rather watch Die Hard with a vengance then quander a question like that...lol

[Prichard]

Orlando is changing and attracting different industries (think Burnham Institute).

No. The transplants that have moved to Orlando and yearn for their DC and NYC stuff to do are trying to change Orlando. I like it the way it is. I've attended plenty of shows at the Bob Carr - they were just fine. But, even if we didn't have the Bob Carr, I really wouldn't care much. The bottom line is that it is outrageously expensive to see a play. Government funding for performing arts centers is welfare for the rich. As much as I don't like welfare for the poor, I disslike it even more for the rich.

If Orlando could financially support a nicer performing arts center, some investment group would have already built one. Believe me, old Buddy Dyer and Rich Crotty would gladly give such a group all kinds of tax incentives to build one. The fact is that everyone knows that a performing arts center is nothing more than a money sucker, even at $125/ticket. It does nothing for the average person - just gives rich NYC and DC transplants something to bragg about.

And for pumping money into the Stadium - don't even get me started! All I have to say is:

BUILD IT (for millions of dollars) AND THEY WILL COME......NOT!

[hgebel]

I've lived most of my life Delaware within easy reach of D.C. and Philadelphia and have made frequent trips to those cities to see museums; I also have memberships at the Delaware Art Museum and Winterthur in Wilmington and to the Biggs Museum in Dover. I subscribe to Smithsonian magazine and used to have a membership there, and I will confess to watching the occasional play.

I understand the importance of culture, but (admitting I have only been back here for a week) I have to agree with the people who complain about the people complaining about the lack of culture here. I checked the AAM's website and there are four accredited museums in the area, that's one more than the whole of the State of Delaware. And since Delaware has quite a few very nice unaccredited museums for each accredited one I imagine there are a lot more than four museums around here. I don't like bars and clubs, but nevertheless when I lived here '89 and '90 I never had a hard time finding things to see and do. The first time I saw Les Miserables was at a theater here in '89, I don't remember the name of the theater, but it was really nice. The production values were just as good and most of the principle cast was the same as when I saw it at the Marion Theater in Philadelphia and the Grand Opera House in Wilmington. I saw Fiddler on the Roof around the same time, I'm pretty sure it was down here and it was also a very nice production.

I also have to agree with Prichard about how a lot of of the complaining seems to be from people who want to change Orlando into a clone of where they are from. I have to wonder why they moved here in the first place, there were several reasons I moved here but one of them was that I liked the way it was here the last time I lived in Orlando. If the way Orlando is results in there being mostly low-paying service jobs; well that's the price you pay for the Orlando lifestyle. If you want to make a lot of money or do some other kind of work move someplace else.

I also agree with when Prichard says that a performing arts center should be able to support itself without infusions of government cash. If it can't stand on its own it should find another place to stand.

-Harry

[ARC]

Sigh! Whenever someone isn't absolutely in love with "the way things are" in Orlando then they should move or stop complaining? So shortsighted!

I'm sure the natives were complaining when Disney came to town and changed the landscape here. Now things are changing AGAIN. Orlando won't ever be a clone of any other city, but it is trying to grow up and be a "big city." Part of being a "big city" and attracting employers that pay a decent wage is to have big city cultural venues. As long as Orlando is a Mickey Mouse city with Mickey Mouse wages then we'll continue having the problems we are currently experiencing.

Originally Posted by hgebel

I've lived most of my life Delaware within easy reach of D.C. and Philadelphia and have made frequent trips to those cities to see museums; I also have memberships at the Delaware Art Museum and Winterthur in Wilmington and to the Biggs Museum in Dover. I subscribe to Smithsonian magazine and used to have a membership there, and I will confess to watching the occasional play.

I understand the importance of culture, but (admitting I have only been back here for a week) I have to agree with the people who complain about the people complaining about the lack of culture here. I checked the AAM's website and there are four accredited museums in the area, that's one more than the whole of the State of Delaware. And since Delaware has quite a few very nice unaccredited museums for each accredited one I imagine there are a lot more than four museums around here. I don't like bars and clubs, but nevertheless when I lived here '89 and '90 I never had a hard time finding things to see and do. The first time I saw Les Miserables was at a theater here in '89, I don't remember the name of the theater, but it was really nice. The production values were just as good and most of the principle cast was the same as when I saw it at the Marion Theater in Philadelphia and the Grand Opera House in Wilmington. I saw Fiddler on the Roof around the same time, I'm pretty sure it was down here and it was also a very nice production.

I also have to agree with Prichard about how a lot of of the complaining seems to be from people who want to change Orlando into a clone of where they are from. I have to wonder why they moved here in the first place, there were several reasons I moved here but one of them was that I liked the way it was here the last time I lived in Orlando. If the way Orlando is results in there being mostly low-paying service jobs; well that's the price you pay for the Orlando lifestyle. If you want to make a lot of money or do some other kind of work move someplace else.

I also agree with when Prichard says that a performing arts center should be able to support itself without infusions of government cash. If it can't stand on its own it should find another place to stand.

-Harry

[hgebel]

Originally Posted by ARC

Sigh! Whenever someone isn't absolutely in love with "the way things are" in Orlando then they should move or stop complaining? So shortsighted!

I'm sure the natives were complaining when Disney came to town and changed the landscape here. Now things are changing AGAIN. Orlando won't ever be a clone of any other city, but it is trying to grow up and be a "big city." Part of being a "big city" and attracting employers that pay a decent wage is to have big city cultural venues. As long as Orlando is a Mickey Mouse city with Mickey Mouse wages then we'll continue having the problems we are currently experiencing.

You misunderstand me, nobody likes everything about anyplace; I'm certainly not suggesting that someone should move anytime anything changes or they see something they don't like; we'd all be permanent nomads if that were the case. Change as a general concept is natural and unavoidable; changes that hold up are almost always beneficial. However, not every change is good and it is perfectly reasonable for people to oppose the changes they don't want. The tendency to oppose change is probably something that was built into us by evolution since it forces changes to prove themselves. As such, opposition to change has been, and continues to be, a positive trait in human psychology. Pushing for change is also a beneficial trait, without it there would be no change to oppose and we would all still be in the stone age. We all push the changes we want and oppose the changes we don't, the interaction of these to tendencies is the reason history has been, despite bumps here and there, a steady tale of improvement. This isn't specific to Orlando in any way.

As to the accusation of shortsightedness, that assumes that either everyone wants the same thing you want, but somehow can't see that your way is the way to achieve it, or else it assumes that people can't see that what you want is something that they should also want. Given the tone of your final statement I suspect it's the latter. Everyone wants more money, but I think many people are willing to give it up for other considerations. I for one have spent my life in service jobs. I have rarely made more than $11 per hour which I guess some people consider a low wage but I have never had problems with it. I will probably make somewhat less here, but here I am paying not much more than half the rent and about the same in utilities that I paid in Newark, and I'm getting a bigger house, a yard, and a crime rate that is half of Newark's. When I hear people talk about the area growing up I hear the same things I have heard in Delaware for my whole life and which are a big part of the reason I came down here. In Delaware it was unavoidable (and therefore presumably beneficial) but what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander and just because growing up (what a condescending way of portraying it) was the way Delaware had to go does not mean that this area must or even should go that way. Florida is not the North-east corridor, and it's certainly not centrally located. Whether that will be relevant remains to be seen. Is there some reason the area can't maintain a low-paying service oriented economy for the foreseeable future, and is there some reason it would be a bad thing if it did? I don't know, only time can decide that.

-Harry

[THASPECIAL]

Originally Posted by ARC

Orlando won't ever be a clone of any other city, but it is trying to grow up and be a "big city." Part of being a "big city" and attracting employers that pay a decent wage is to have big city cultural venues. As long as Orlando is a Mickey Mouse city with Mickey Mouse wages then we'll continue having the problems we are currently experiencing.

I dont really think "Orlando" is "trying" to grow up and be a big city....if it was the local government would build a subway system and there would be a highway system that has 5 lanes like any other city our size.....Orlando is being forced into growth just because alot of people keep moving here........we arent trying to be like NYC or Philidelphia or Boston......we are a vacation destination....kinda like Las Vegas......does it mean that we dont have a local culture here?....no.....we are not like those northeast cities...the fact is that the only neighborhoods here with long deep roots are the Black areas of town and it just has to do with the history here in the south ...


It will never be like up north here because in those cities there are neighborhoods with a majority of races and different cultural stuff to do in that neighborhood involving that specific race....here there are different races all over but there arent really the deep rooted neighborhoods like up north .....the only difference of up there and here is that in those cities they have alot of history because they were part of the United States way before other areas were....we have most of our culture from things that happened with slavery and the Civil War...and history from being one of the first states that was found by explorers from Europe.....


its apples and Oranges....and out west they have thier own history too but them and us are just alot newer than those Northeast cities and its amazing how much western and southern cities have grown in the little time weve been around compared to the time the northeastern cities have been here developing

[ARC]

How did a conversation regarding the cultural arts turn into a discussion about turning Orlando into a Northeastern city??? I'm confused! I know many mid to large-sized cities throughout the United States (and not just the NE corridor) that have a substantial cultural arts presence.

Anyway, cities change - whether due to force or planning - no matter - it happens. You don't think Orlando was changed forever when Walt Disney bought all that cheap land in Central Florida back in 1963? He couldn't afford to buy anymore land in Anaheim so he came to Florida to expand his theme park empire. And I guess you could argue that he was forcing Central Florida, which was then acres of orange groves, to become more like Southern California! And the rest is history - Central Florida changed dramatically.

[hgebel]

Originally Posted by ARC

How did a conversation regarding the cultural arts turn into a discussion about turning Orlando into a Northeastern city??? I'm confused! I know many mid to large-sized cities throughout the United States (and not just the NE corridor) that have a substantial cultural arts presence.

Anyway, cities change - whether due to force or planning - no matter - it happens. You don't think Orlando was changed forever when Walt Disney bought all that cheap land in Central Florida back in 1963? He couldn't afford to buy anymore land in Anaheim so he came to Florida to expand his theme park empire. And I guess you could argue that he was forcing Central Florida, which was then acres of orange groves, to become more like Southern California! And the rest is history - Central Florida changed dramatically.

I wasn't arguing that cities don't change, haven't changed, or shouldn't change; in fact, if you read my post you will see I argued the exact opposite. Orlando was already a major tourist destination and already growing rapidly before Disney came, but Disney certainly accelerated that change. (And I thought Central Florida was more about cattle ranching than orange groves before tourism came, but I could be wrong there.)

-Harry

[Prichard]

I'm sure the natives were complaining when Disney came to town and changed the landscape here.

I'm still groaning about it!

[ARC]

Harry -

My argument wasn't with your post. I was responding to THASPECIAL's argument that being for any additional cultural ammenities in Orlando is akin to trying to make it DC or NYC.

I understand change. I'm from Texas and have seen the major cities there being forced into diversifying their economies into something other than oil. At first it is hard b/c you see the outside influences and what you think is your way of life going away. But Texas is still Texas and Orlando, Florida will still retain it's unique flavor even if there are some changes.

And you are right in that the cattle industry was also important to Central Florida (as well as orange groves) before Disney. I can't comment on Orlando being a "major" tourist destination prior to Disney since I wasn't around then! I'll take your word on that.

Originally Posted by hgebel

I wasn't arguing that cities don't change, haven't changed, or shouldn't change; in fact, if you read my post you will see I argued the exact opposite. Orlando was already a major tourist destination and already growing rapidly before Disney came, but Disney certainly accelerated that change. (And I thought Central Florida was more about cattle ranching than orange groves before tourism came, but I could be wrong there.)

-Harry