Food for thought in relocation (Jacksonville, Orlando: apartments, rental market, HOA)

[kyle19125]

Orlando is the 31st most expensive rental market in the country, with one bedrooms averaging $980 and two bedrooms averaging $1160. On the flip side the average household income is 41,000 per year, which after taxes equals about $2800 a month. If one does the math the 1/3 of income toward housing ratio clearly does not work there. Just food for thought for those who think moving to Orlando minus a well-paying job is going to put you ahead of where you are now..

Oh God, The Median Rent on a Portland Apartment Just Hit $1,400 - Willamette Week
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

[OTownKnight]

Thank you for posting this. Lately I've been seeing a lot of users commenting on how cheap Orlando is and how affordable it is for everyone to live here, when in fact over the past 3 or 4 years it has gotten out of control in terms of housing costs and rents compared to most people's incomes. Finally some statistics to show the disparity in rent/income.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by OTownKnight

Thank you for posting this. Lately I've been seeing a lot of users commenting on how cheap Orlando is and how affordable it is for everyone to live here, when in fact over the past 3 or 4 years it has gotten out of control in terms of housing costs and rents compared to most people's incomes. Finally some statistics to show the disparity in rent/income.

Exactly why I posted, not only is it irresponsible but utterly false for most.

[goffcriscuola]

In comparison with South Florida that is 7 or 8 years ago pricing. Average not ghetto 1 bedroom is 1300 to 1500. 2 bedrooms average right now 1700 to 1900. Pay really isn't much higher here than there. It's cheaper the more north you go and just goes up the more south you go. Wish jobs would pay better all around .

[Ashley James Williams]

$980 and $1,160 is not the floor of pricing. If your paying that, you elected to. No one is entitled to live where they want to. It's a copy and paste of requirements ad nauseam: "A+++++ schools, absolutely ZERO crime, walkable, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, near downtown....Budget is $850!"

The influx of new residents + finite stock in perceived "desirable" areas = appropriate rental rates. I don't complain about Disney now being $120+ a person, I simply removed Disney from any of our family of four activities. Our cup runneth over, and we're not poor by any measure, but since we're not big Disney people in the first place, the cost benefit ratio is laughable...To us. To others, it's still a great value. Bottom line, as a lifelong Floridian, I am not entitled to visit Disney if I find it too expensive, no matter how bad I want to go, just as I'm not entitled to live in Thornton Park.

In Orlando, there are plenty of statistically safe areas, that are relatively convenient, properly maintained, and relatively affordable. Will you see a homeless person on your commute, yes. Will you have occasional car burglaries? yes. Neighbors that have some domestic issues? maybe. A parking lot full of whisky dented 10 year old cars? Probably. Is the coroners van there every day? No. These places are not projects or Leppar colonies, but you would'nt know it by the way people avoid them. I think the issue is many people romantasize the idea of high density urban environments, and all the amenities they offer, but find it unfair their income precludes them from the more metropolitan sectors.

If you can technically afford to live there, but are spending such a high percentiage of income as you are now an involuntary homebody...That's on you. There are plenty of other areas to live in Orlando.

[bmw335xi]

Here is my issue with this...

1) I personally believe it is none of our business to decide for members whether moving to Orlando is good for them UNLESS they specifically ask, "CAN I AFFORD TO LIVE HERE or DO YOU THINK I SHOULD MOVE HERE"

2) Orlando is still more affordable even with the lower wages than SOME of the major liberal cities members here like to fantasize about like San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, simply use the same metrics in the OP to these cities and you'll see what I mean

3) Yes, there are a lot of people living in poverty here, but the fact that it isn't common for working adults to share a 2 bedroom with 4 unique adults or that it isn't common to say rent out a living room to another adult, tells me some people here are living on fantasy island when they dream of cities like NYC, San Francisco, San Jose or Los Angeles. Heck, my friend just listed a 1,000 square foot condo for $1.1 million in San Francisco, tack on an HOA around $1,000 month... being able to own your own property is a dream to even those earning well above the median income. Orlando has many options, even in Dr. Phillips you can own a 2 bedroom condo for $150k, which is still larger than many $1 million properties in San Francisco. You can buy a decent condo in Metrowest for under $100k, which people might say, "yeah but that area isn't too good despite it's good looks" where I can say, $600,000 will get you piece of **** like this in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country.

https://www.redfin.com/city/17151/CA...657:-122.43116

4) See number 1

[brinkofsunshine]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

Here is my issue with this...

1) I personally believe it is none of our business to decide for members whether moving to Orlando is good for them UNLESS they specifically ask, "CAN I AFFORD TO LIVE HERE or DO YOU THINK I SHOULD MOVE HERE"

2) Orlando is still more affordable even with the lower wages than SOME of the major liberal cities members here like to fantasize about like San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, simply use the same metrics in the OP to these cities and you'll see what I mean

3) Yes, there are a lot of people living in poverty here, but the fact that it isn't common for working adults to share a 2 bedroom with 4 unique adults or that it isn't common to say rent out a living room to another adult, tells me some people here are living on fantasy island when they dream of cities like NYC, San Francisco, San Jose or Los Angeles. Heck, my friend just listed a 1,000 square foot condo for $1.1 million in San Francisco, tack on an HOA around $1,000 month... being able to own your own property is a dream to even those earning well above the median income. Orlando has many options, even in Dr. Phillips you can own a 2 bedroom condo for $150k, which is still larger than many $1 million properties in San Francisco. You can buy a decent condo in Metrowest for under $100k, which people might say, "yeah but that area isn't too good despite it's good looks" where I can say, $600,000 will get you piece of **** like this in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country.

https://www.redfin.com/city/17151/CA...657:-122.43116

4) See number 1

I don't really see how it's relevant that Orlando is still more affordable than three of the largest/most metropolitan cities in the country. I doubt most posters are thinking, "Well, at least it's cheaper than San Francisco!" when trying to determine living expenses. The rental market here is very expensive compared to wages. The crowding of tiny apartments may not be as extreme as it is in some large cities, but I can assure you that most people working in the hospitality/tourism industry are living with roommates.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by brinkofsunshine

I don't really see how it's relevant that Orlando is still more affordable than three of the largest/most metropolitan cities in the country. I doubt most posters are thinking, "Well, at least it's cheaper than San Francisco!" when trying to determine living expenses. The rental market here is very expensive compared to wages. The crowding of tiny apartments may not be as extreme as it is in some large cities, but I can assure you that most people working in the hospitality/tourism industry are living with roommates.

I know, the oft-compared San Francisco cracks me up. Opposite extremes much? The two cities would pretty much never come up in the same conversation for relocation as if "hmmm....which one?"

When one drills down further beyond "household income" stats here in Orlando you find that the Average Income (for ONE person) is under 26K per year, or after taxes around $1800 a month. As with any median that means of course there are people making considerably more, which by statistical average is far less than those below the same average...meaning a significant percentage is making less than 26K per year in the Orlando area. Are there cities where the wage gap is more significant? Yes, quite a number...but none where so many are at or below such a low salary to start with. Orlando is in fact the least Income Segregated major city. The second least is Portland OR which is day and night different from Orlando, so comparing certainly isn't on the surface as simplistic as one might think.

America's Least Income-Segregated Large Metros
Rank Metro Index Rank of All Metros
51 Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL 0.247 283
50 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA 0.264 270
49 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 0.283 256
48 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 0.315 228
47 Jacksonville, FL 0.321 224
46 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV 0.323 221
45 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Roseville, CA 0.360 187
44 Salt Lake City, UT 0.366 182
43 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 0.373 173
42 Rochester, NY 0.376 169

[bmw335xi]

I use California as an example because there are people on this forum plus a lot of people I meet in my real life here who romanticize about California, mostly the San Francisco Bay Area and sometimes Los Angeles. Much of the time, these people complain about the housing costs in Orlando or the traffic during rush hour and here I'm laughing in my head because traffic here really isn't bad in comparison to say the Bay Area or Los Angeles. The cost of housing really isn't bad compared to San Francisco or Los Angeles. I make it very clear to what cities I'm comparing it when I make these kinds of statements. Not to mention, I just moved from there, so of course I will compare Orlando to where I'm from. Sure, you could live in a handful of cities in "Middle America" that are cheaper, but to me they really aren't as desirable. There is a reason why Orlando receives 60+ million people per year and Kansas City doesn't. Now there are some cities that do offer in my opinion a decent lifestyle, while still having affordable housing and decent incomes such as Houston. The bottom line is people have so many variables in their back story that most would never want to share or feel like they have to share with strangers on the internet. In addition, I don't think people are complete idiots meaning, if someone is saying they plan to move to Orlando and want to know some of the more walkable areas, we shouldn't simply say, "no don't move here" because you'd have to be a complete idiot to think Orlando is anything like New York City, Chicago or San Francisco, so I would assume they simply want to know the most walkable parts of the city, so when they come to visit, they can get a better idea on whether to move ahead with their plans or not.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

Sure, you could live in a handful of cities in "Middle America" that are cheaper, but to me they really aren't as desirable. There is a reason why Orlando receives 60+ million people per year and Kansas City doesn't. Now there are some cities that do offer in my opinion a decent lifestyle, while still having affordable housing and decent incomes such as Houston.

There's more than a "handful" and the reason why Orlando receives 60+ million visitors a year isn't due to the city proper's amenities, it's Walt Disney World and Universal Studios overwhelmingly. Take those away and Orlando is like any other mid-sized Southern metro in terms of what it offers. Desirability varies among all of us and some find more well-rounded cities like Kansas City (and the umpteen others with lower costs of living and plenty to do along with four season climates) preferable to those who don't enjoy eight months of summer heat/humidity, a salary-challenged job market and pricey rental housing. I think it's very important that people potentially moving to Orlando understand it's not like the magical fun-filled existence in day-to-day life perpetuated by the "kittens and unicorns" posts in this forum that testify it's great for everyone of all age groups and socioeconomic backgrounds.