High school Help Needed....AP or IB?

[ngrome]

Originally Posted by smhill

Hi,

I was a straight A AP student, now teaching an IB subject. I DEFINITELY recommend the IB program over AP because I am astounded how many more college acceptances (with $$) the IB students receive over the AP students, such as myself.

Also, AP tests are harder than the final IB tests. The IB tests are advanced HS level. AP tests are true college level tests.

I think there is a myth that the IB program is unbelievably hard, but all these kids adapt as long as they practice good time management. They are very prepared for school.

Also, the curriculum is amazing. I really wish I had the IB experience in school, but my parents didn't push me in that direction, and at 13, one needs some direction in choosing paths.

What you just said that AP tests are harder than final IB tests, then why do colleges readily accept IB program students over AP students? As a program, I do believe IB is the more challenging as I know of a friend's child who was accepted at a school for having mediocre IB grades, because they are weighted higher. But someone else said was true, that AP is more customizable and allows a student for some activities, though not that more than IB because as a parent of an AP student I know she also has to discipline herself to spend a lot of time on her classes.

[ngrome]

Originally Posted by FL little foot

I have heard this..This is why I thought I should get opinions from those who know. Funny you mentioned if your kid wants to become a doctor. That's exactly what she wants to be. I don't know about Harvard or Princeton but I appreciate the feed back. We're going to give it a try, If its too much then we will go back to our zoned school for the AP.

I will agree with others that IB gives your child a better chance to be accepted in a more elite institution, if that's what she wants. But I personally wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a student getting B's and C's in IB (underachieving?) and a student getting straight A's in AP. I don't know how the colleges would be able to determine that.

[smhill]

Originally Posted by ngrome

What you just said that AP tests are harder than final IB tests, then why do colleges readily accept IB program students over AP students? As a program, I do believe IB is the more challenging as I know of a friend's child who was accepted at a school for having mediocre IB grades, because they are weighted higher. But someone else said was true, that AP is more customizable and allows a student for some activities, though not that more than IB because as a parent of an AP student I know she also has to discipline herself to spend a lot of time on her classes.

Hi,

I am not sure! Probably because as an overall program, in total, IB is IMO harder (however, very possible for a motivated, hard working student).

as an ex, comparing the AP Chemistry exam (1 Final) to the IB Chemistry exams (3 Finals), there is no question. AP is harder. Significantly so. For ex, the IB Chem exam breaks down large free response questions into smaller, more manageable questions which have the effect of pointing the student in the right direction. On the AP Chem test, a lot of the multiple step reasoning is left to the student. Therefore, at least in my subject, I consider IB Chem adv HS level and AP actual college level.

On another note, I agree with another poster that students can get acceptances with lower GPAs if they graduated from the IB prog. I have seen lower GPAs (eg in the 3.0-3.2 range (which indicates As Bs and Cs) in IB getting not only acceptances, but full scholarships. Based on my students' experiences, therefore colleges must take into account the IB program, and give some leeway where GPA is concerned.

But to clarify we are talking about two different things: The difficulty of the program IN TOTAL v. the difficulty of the end of course exams. IB is harder as an overall program because, like the second poster mentioned, the students are put in all IB courses. AP students take a handful of challenging AP classes and fill in the rest with typical HS honors classes (which for me, at least, were not very challenging). The students do have a good deal of coursework in addition to some IB required projects that makes the overall program, yes, time consuming.--but be assured, OP, that I have very well rounded students and if your daughter has ambitions of being a Dr, then she would probably love the exposure to other highly motivated kids with similar ambitions. The curriculum is very internationally minded. I just really love it, and I'm glad you're giving it a try. Make sure...you're supporting her efforts with time management. See to it that she keeps an organized agenda and does NOT procrastinate. This will eliminate 75% of the stress.

Good luck!

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by smhill

Also, AP tests are harder than the final IB tests. The IB tests are advanced HS level. AP tests are true college level tests.
.

Not true. Depends on the IB test. There are 2 levels of IB courses, SL and HL. HL is as hard, if not harder than many of the AP tests. For example, on my IB HL chem test, there was ORGANIC chemistry on it. The same type of questions I ended up seeing in my second-year organic chem class in COLLEGE. Nothing like that on the AP test.

I did IB a decade ago, the great thing was that we could take the AP tests in addition to the IB ones at the end of the course. The AP kids could not take an IB test.

When it comes to college applications, it gives you a second chance to get credit, if you end up doing better on the AP rather than the IB test (happened to me a couple of times).

IB is basically the equivalent of 6 AP courses, plus additional coursework, volunteer work requirement, and a long essay. Many IB kids are involved in extracurricular activities, and if you are looking for an elite college-prep experience, I'd highly recommend it over the vanilla AP route.

[smhill]

Originally Posted by chopchop0

Not true. Depends on the IB test. There are 2 levels of IB courses, SL and HL. HL is as hard, if not harder than many of the AP tests. For example, on my IB HL chem test, there was ORGANIC chemistry on it. The same type of questions I ended up seeing in my second-year organic chem class in COLLEGE. Nothing like that on the AP test.

I did IB a decade ago, the great thing was that we could take the AP tests in addition to the IB ones at the end of the course. The AP kids could not take an IB test.

When it comes to college applications, it gives you a second chance to get credit, if you end up doing better on the AP rather than the IB test (happened to me a couple of times).

IB is basically the equivalent of 6 AP courses, plus additional coursework, volunteer work requirement, and a long essay. Many IB kids are involved in extracurricular activities, and if you are looking for an elite college-prep experience, I'd highly recommend it over the vanilla AP route.

AP students cannot take the IB test because the curriculum is not the same; IB does include more organic than AP. (however, that organic is a very introductory take on organic and my students actually found it easier than the gen chem inorganic topics that IB and AP share). For an example, AP chem students need to know how to determine pH calcs with the quadratic, but IB permits, even at the HL level, a more simplified calculation (permitting a certain estimation) - the HL IB test requires nowhere near as complex buffer/complex equilibrium calcs as the AP exam - AND the format of the test is, like I said, one where the Free Response Qs are broken down into smaller, guided chunks for the students. From a pedagogical stdpt, therefore, the test questions are written on an adv HS level. Therefore, when comparing the level of difficulty of questions, say on the strictly inorganic material between the AP and IB chem test, there is no comparison as to the difference in the degree of difficulty. IB is adv HS. AP is true college level chem.

Essentially, AP covers a smaller amount of topics in greater depth. IB Chem covers a broader range of topics in less breadth. AP chem is a standard college level, two semester general chemistry sequence. The gen chem in the IB Chemistry exams is simpler than college level gen chem. IB Chemistry aims to give the student an introductory view of gen chem and other topics, like biochem, organic, industrial chem. Personally, one of the reasons I prefer IB Chem is for this very reason. And colleges give you credit for it, so its a win-win.

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by smhill

AP students cannot take the IB test because the curriculum is not the same; IB does include more organic than AP. (however, that organic is a very introductory take on organic and my students actually found it easier than the gen chem inorganic topics that IB and AP share). For an example, AP chem students need to know how to determine pH calcs with the quadratic, but IB permits, even at the HL level, a more simplified calculation (permitting a certain estimation) - the HL IB test requires nowhere near as complex buffer/complex equilibrium calcs as the AP exam - AND the format of the test is, like I said, one where the Free Response Qs are broken down into smaller, guided chunks for the students. From a pedagogical stdpt, therefore, the test questions are written on an adv HS level. Therefore, when comparing the level of difficulty of questions, say on the strictly inorganic material between the AP and IB chem test, there is no comparison as to the difference in the degree of difficulty. IB is adv HS. AP is true college level chem.

Essentially, AP covers a smaller amount of topics in greater depth. IB Chem covers a broader range of topics in less breadth. AP chem is a standard college level, two semester general chemistry sequence. The gen chem in the IB Chemistry exams is simpler than college level gen chem. IB Chemistry aims to give the student an introductory view of gen chem and other topics, like biochem, organic, industrial chem. Personally, one of the reasons I prefer IB Chem is for this very reason. And colleges give you credit for it, so its a win-win.

All I know is that when it came time to take the test 10+ years ago, I got a 5 on my IB HL chem test, and a 5 on my AP chem test. The 5 on the AP got me the credit I needed, since I didn't get a 7 on the IB test.

It was a huge advantage to have that second chance with taking AP exams as an IB student. AP students do NOT have that advantage. That alone makes it worth it IMO

[FL little foot]

Thank you all for your inputs. It really does help me with the understanding of the differences.