section 8??? in avalon park??? (Orlando, Pine Hills: good credit, real estate, apartments)

[orlando'an]

your right, guywithacause, and i live in the mentioned area and a little concerened. should i leave now or later is the question tho.

[Guywithacause]

That is ultimately the decision you have to make for yourself. The low-income housing that is there now may be the only ones going up...or there may be more in the pipeline. In my experience... where they build one low-income community...they will build several..especially when there is 0 resistance by local communities/elected officials.

The real damage though is to the reputation of Avalon Park, not really to the quality of your lifestyle as they do not live in Avalon Park. If Avalon Park becomes synonymous (which it shouldn't) with low-income housing, whether it is just misinformation or people falsely claiming they live in Avalon Park, any reasonable person will shy away from seeking housing there...and for good reason. And that is where the problem lies: Avalon Park becomes undersireable, people sell/lose money, more people leave/rent their homes to low-income renters or sell to low-income residents, and then it just feeds off itself....

[orlando'an]

i hear they are planning on building 3 more... so, maybe i should think about moving sooner rather than later i guess.

[Guywithacause]

Yeah I heard that too. The problem though is that it is difficult selling now...so not sure if you wanna rush and sell. That's how the problem ultimately gets out of control..people rush to sell and then it all snowballs.

I would follow all of this closely...I don't know where to get information on what has been approved in the area...anyone have any websites or resources that can tell us what developments are going up in and around Avalon?

[orlando'an]

^^^ good question...

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

I don't think we were discussing affordable housing...the issue here is low-income housing...those are two different topics. I am all for affordable housing,

Low-income housing is a type of affordable housing.

I think this fear is not unfounded, in fact it has been proven over and over again over the past 40 years in a variety of cities. The low-income/housing projects go up...and middle class flight ensues...this is nothing new or not proven. I think these concerns are quite valid and should be addressed.

It's widely agreed upon by experts that low-income housing doesn't lower land values. Experts... as in, people who study these things for a living. Not people who make unfounded assumptions. Could you give an example of how land values have decreased over and over again in a variety of cities from low income housing? White flight doesn't have anything to do with subsidized housing... you're trying to connect two completely unrelated things.

What it sounds like is, there is a rumor that apartments are planning on being built in Avalon Park. Because they're apartments, people make unfounded assumptions that all the tenants will be section 8. And that white flight is somehow going to happen in one of the metro region's distant suburbs (because I'm sure that's where undesirables want to live! Way out in the suburbs! ) .

[Guywithacause]

Low income housing is not a type of affordable housing. Low-income housing is low-income housing...affordable housing is affordable housing. You may choose to lump them together because the government chooses to, but the reality is they are very different entities and serve different populations/classes.

Low-income housing serves the indigent in our community, those that must rely heavily on government programs to survive, with many people suffering from a lack of education, basic skills, and a variety of social, physical, and mental dysfunctions.

Affordable housing provides housing for those who, for a variety of reasons, cannot afford to pay the prevailing market conditions..not because they lack the skills or education, but because they are in low-paying but critical fields, like public servants, home health aides, and the service industry (retail/restuarant/janitorial) etc. They also include those that are in transitional fields..such as students (young and old), and those moving from the low-income communities out of poverty and into decent affordable housing due to increased educations, work-training, marriage, etc.

Nobody is against affordable housing as it serves a critical group that is the backbone of our country. Low-income housing is merely a holding cell for those that cannot or will not do for themselves for whatever reason. Putting up affordable housing helps maintain a healthy community...putting up low-income housing (aka the "projects") is of no value to the community, except to keep people from sleeping on the streets and provides them a basic human existence which all people should have.

Now how do low-income communities decrease housing values? The same way crime decreases housing values, the same way a highway being built across the street from you decreases property values, the same way a jail built on your block decreases property values, the same way a homeless shelter built next door decreases property values....NOBODY WANTS TO LIVE NEAR IT.

Basic supply and demand...why would someone choose to live in these areas when there are an abundance of other areas that do not have these negatives? The result is a lower price due to the lower demand...and many times the areas get worse and worse because as the prices go down, more people leave and are replaced with lower-income individuals. And violah...you have lower valued homes, with lower income individuals residing there.

Furthermore, white flight, or flight of any color that is middle class, is part of the problem as it is a reasonable and normal reaction to what is seen as an attack on a community. Investing in a home is the biggest purchase and investment most people will ever make...so why risk it A: Buying in a community that has/will have low-income housing? B: Why stay in a community that has/will have MORE low-income housing? I certianly would not risk my future, and any reasonable person would not either. Whether this "flight" is right or wrong is debatable, but the reasons why people leave and choose not to buy are palpable and legitimate.

And for the record:

1-There is no rumor that there is low-income housing around Avalon Park. There IS low-income housing already. The rumor is that there MAY BE MORE on the way...and that certianly is not a benefit for any homeowner.

2-"Undesireables" (your word, not mine) don't have the luxury of choosing where they want to live...so whether it is in a distant suburb or smack on Church Street is up to the legislators, not you, me, or the "undesireables." (I prefer the term low-income residents). In my experience, the low-income housing is now being built far from city centers because downtown districs are now fashionable and trendy....so move the low-income residents far far away...out of sight...out of mind.

[orlando'an]

milliano, not rumor. they are already almost built.

will u buy my house?

[amstangl]

I just read all of this and wanted to add a little something that I don't think has been mentioned.

This area of Orlando is a university area, with UCF, Valencia and Full Sail in the near vicinity. A lot of our Section 8 housing are students that are independent from their parents and cannot work full time because they are going to school.

Many of you are mighty quick to judge others based on their financial situation when you have NO idea what has happened in their lives. That is completely unfair.

[Magnulus]

Neither "affordable housing" or "low-income housing" as you put it, necessarily lower housing values. It just depends on too many circumstances to make a blanket statement.

As I said before, where are all the burger flippers in Avalon Park suppossed to live when gas hits 8-12 dollars a gallon and people cannot commute from Eustis or Bithlo? People that are so much against low-income housing better learn to flip their own burgers, or rather, carry a sack lunch, because poor people will not drive much farther than they do now, gas is killing them.