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The Wal Marts in orlando are filthy and mention was made of the parking lots. I cannot think of a more telling way to judge a community than by the parking lot appearance. There are carriage/cart returns all over the place and no one uses them. Many people don't even park the carts on the grass where they won't smash into someone's car. The slobs in Orlando just leave them in parking spaces.."Hey thanks..I'll just get out of my car and move it for you". McD's wrappers, cigarette butts, and beer bottles strewn throughout the grounds. Welfare moms with eight kids moving slowly and cluelessly through the store with no sense of awareness. Loud screaming in Spanish. Unattended boxes strategically placed in the center of aisles. What an absolute nightmare visiting a Wal Mart anywhere in Orlando!
Roger,
You could well be describing most large cities/communities in the entire Northeast (perhaps much of the rest of the country but I'm stuck in the Northeast so it's my only perspective).
My local Wal-Marts is in a primarily middle class, white neighborhood in a decent-size nice suburb. It is a pigsty, inside & out. The aisles are an obstacle course and the fire department's worst nightmare. There are more Spanish-speaking employees working in the store than live in this community (as well as surrounding area); so many in fact that inside the store, employee announcements via the loudspeaker are made primarily in Spanish [at a deafening decibel level]. While there are not a lot of Spanish-speaking shoppers, there are plenty of non-English speaking Asians and Middle Easterners, among other nationalities. These folks bring along mom, dad, the kiddies and all their extended family for a shopping outing. They use 2-3 shopping carts [mostly to hold the little kids, not merchandise] and traverse the aisles so as to effectively block anyone else. Except for the Asians, many of the kids are brats and the whole family talks, loud, all at once. Without identifying a particular nationality, some are prone to throwing merchandise on the floor and generally making a giant mess. They think nothing of wheeling the carriage over disgarded clothing items, opening sealed packages, spilling items on the floor [think laundry detergent, shampoo, and similar messy liquids], sampling cookies/candy without purchasing, etc. The parking lot is a disgrace, filthy and several areas are without sufficient lighting. Shopping carts are left willy-nilly. Cars habitually take up two spaces. In the winter, the lot can be turned easily into an iceskating rink. I repeat, this store is in a very nice community; the median income is probably well over $55K per year.
These are not poor people. When you encounter them in the parking lot, they're driving big ticket cars/SUV's. Many of these people are quite rude to "Americans" [white & black], pretending not to speak/understand English until you start to discuss money: then they understand every single word and communicate quite well in English. These are simply people who think they are either owed something, better than everyone else or just have not bothered to learn common every-day courtesies and acceptable public manners. They wish to live in the US but they have no intention of being "Americans" or assimilating.
I don't believe the problem you describe is a local issue. It is systematic of a lazy, selfish, instant-gratification, self-centered "me" mentality that pervades our country. I'll save the decline in family values, morals, etc., for another discussion.
I don't believe this problem is a race issue or a monied [or lack thereof] issue. It is simply that many people no longer give a damn about anything other than what they want, when they want it and the hell with everyone else.
Several other posters have been having a running discussion regarding the mindset/perceptions of the "haves" vs the "have-nots" and the growing pains Orlando is experiencing. I respectfully submit these type issues are neither new to Orlando or any other established metropolitan area nor are they unique. Visit cities such as Newark, Hartford, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Boston, etc and you will find the exact same issues. There are weathly areas, middle class areas, poor areas and "transition" areas ("good" areas becoming crime-infested and poorer areas being rehabilitated). The only difference between these "older" communities and Orlando, being "newer", is that older cities have become more segmented [into neighborhoods] over the years so the entire city doesn't get painted with the same brush when trouble (crime, etc) increases. All metropolitan communities have a fluctuating ebb and flow regarding crime, affordable housing, types of retail estalishments, educational issues, traffic problems, etc.
As an outsider [who's interested in relocating to central FL] looking in, I see the Orlando area as unique in the fact that it primarily has a tourist-based
economic base. I believe the Orlando area is either number one or two in the country in the number of hotel rooms. This would naturally lead to many unskilled, low-paying jobs in the hotels, maintenance and their upkeep. Add in all the tourist-related activities--theme parks, attractions, restaurants, and you end up with a larger than "normal" divide in median income. However, on the upside, Orlando has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. The low employment rate is a double-sided sword: lots of employment but much of it in low-paying unskilled jobs. One must also factor in the "big" unknown: if the US slips into a serious recession, vacation budgets are usually one of the first casualties, which would have a huge impact on Orlando economics. All these things factor into the "have and have-not" inequities, real and perceived.
I have the perception that Orlando is also a transient area. Many lower-paid workers, particularly immigrants, live in Orlando and other similar [industry]type cities, until they are able to move on to different areas of the country. They may well be biding their time while they save their money, learn English, learn a skill/trade, earn citizenship, etc before relocating.
I have been looking at real estate in the greater Orlando area for quite some time. It would appear that housing prices are still way out of line for the value. I can speculate that many investors bought up large chunks of the area and that individual homeowners bought at the height of the market or refinanced so that their home is now mortgaged higher than the reasonable resale value. Whatever the reason, the housing market is glutted and many properties are seriously overpriced. Can anyone explain why there are disproportionately so many homes for sale vs the population? Where are people relocating to? Do many homeowners honestly feel they are entitled to a 25-50% profit on a 2-3 year-old investment? Are the homeowners or the real estate agents driving this? I am hard pressed to leave a solid frame wood/brick home with a full basement, attached garage, heat/AC, public water/sewer and a decent size piece of land for a cinderblock slab home on a postage-stamp lot, carport, no attic or basement storage, no natural gas, and in many cases no city water/sewer, both selling for approximately the same amount or more in FL. I want no part of exclusive gated communities with the fees, restrictions, rules and regulations. For the value, what is there to be gained besides trading snow for hot, humid summer weather, giant bugs, snakes, gators and potential hurricanes/tornados?
I'm desperately trying to talk myself into relocating but am increasing having difficulty, especially after reading a lot of posts about crime, racism, etc. and reviewing the real estate ads.
Can someone help convince me of the merits of moving to Orlando? I am an early retiree babyboomer, female, English-only speaker, Protestant. I have some family in assorted FL areas, and one very close relative in Orlando. I am basicially a "spring/summer" person, enjoy gardening, cooking, day trips, antiquing, swimming, casual dining out, occasional sporting events. A part-time job wouldn't be out of the question as long as it didn't involve heavy lifting or too much standing [arthritis issues, which are made worse by cold, damp weather]. Currently live in greater Boston area where I have easy access to first-class museums, libraries, concerts, public transportation, sporting events [just try to get tickets, lol!], etc. I need to stop the fence-sitting and take some action; relocate locally* or pack up & move to FLA.
* have elderly parent that will shortly require living with me; current home not appropriate for this situation.
Maybe check out Lakeland or Tampa.. Lakeland while small is not that far from Orlando area. Tampa has musems, broadway shows, art festivals and beaches.. Of course, there is crime as in most cities but usually contained to certain areas of town. Check out the Tampa forum maybe someone there can provide you with more info.
"Can someone help convince me of the merits of moving to Orlando?"
lct, i am going to tell you my point of view... i wouldnt move to orlando. my wife and i moved back to fla (native floridians by the way) and we are not thrilled at all WITH ORLANDO. we knew the traffic was bad, crime was rising, etc... but it's just gotten to be where many undesirables are moving here bring crime with them, or their attitudes, etc... a lot of ppl in orlando are just plain mean and nasty.
we would NOT move here (orlando) if we had to do it all over again. all we need to be happy is decent jobs, family and friends close by (or within a few hrs), nice ppl who are courteous and friendly. we (imo) do not have that in orlando.
Last edited by Keeper; 10-22-2007 at 11:15 AM..
Reason: no habla ingles/english only allowed
You could well be describing most large cities/communities in the entire Northeast (perhaps much of the rest of the country but I'm stuck in the Northeast so it's my only perspective).
My local Wal-Marts is in a primarily middle class, white neighborhood in a decent-size nice suburb. It is a pigsty, inside & out. The aisles are an obstacle course and the fire department's worst nightmare. There are more Spanish-speaking employees working in the store than live in this community (as well as surrounding area); so many in fact that inside the store, employee announcements via the loudspeaker are made primarily in Spanish [at a deafening decibel level]. While there are not a lot of Spanish-speaking shoppers, there are plenty of non-English speaking Asians and Middle Easterners, among other nationalities. These folks bring along mom, dad, the kiddies and all their extended family for a shopping outing. They use 2-3 shopping carts [mostly to hold the little kids, not merchandise] and traverse the aisles so as to effectively block anyone else. Except for the Asians, many of the kids are brats and the whole family talks, loud, all at once. Without identifying a particular nationality, some are prone to throwing merchandise on the floor and generally making a giant mess. They think nothing of wheeling the carriage over disgarded clothing items, opening sealed packages, spilling items on the floor [think laundry detergent, shampoo, and similar messy liquids], sampling cookies/candy without purchasing, etc. The parking lot is a disgrace, filthy and several areas are without sufficient lighting. Shopping carts are left willy-nilly. Cars habitually take up two spaces. In the winter, the lot can be turned easily into an iceskating rink. I repeat, this store is in a very nice community; the median income is probably well over $55K per year.
These are not poor people. When you encounter them in the parking lot, they're driving big ticket cars/SUV's. Many of these people are quite rude to "Americans" [white & black], pretending not to speak/understand English until you start to discuss money: then they understand every single word and communicate quite well in English. These are simply people who think they are either owed something, better than everyone else or just have not bothered to learn common every-day courtesies and acceptable public manners. They wish to live in the US but they have no intention of being "Americans" or assimilating.
I don't believe the problem you describe is a local issue. It is systematic of a lazy, selfish, instant-gratification, self-centered "me" mentality that pervades our country. I'll save the decline in family values, morals, etc., for another discussion.
I don't believe this problem is a race issue or a monied [or lack thereof] issue. It is simply that many people no longer give a damn about anything other than what they want, when they want it and the hell with everyone else.
Several other posters have been having a running discussion regarding the mindset/perceptions of the "haves" vs the "have-nots" and the growing pains Orlando is experiencing. I respectfully submit these type issues are neither new to Orlando or any other established metropolitan area nor are they unique. Visit cities such as Newark, Hartford, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Boston, etc and you will find the exact same issues. There are weathly areas, middle class areas, poor areas and "transition" areas ("good" areas becoming crime-infested and poorer areas being rehabilitated). The only difference between these "older" communities and Orlando, being "newer", is that older cities have become more segmented [into neighborhoods] over the years so the entire city doesn't get painted with the same brush when trouble (crime, etc) increases. All metropolitan communities have a fluctuating ebb and flow regarding crime, affordable housing, types of retail estalishments, educational issues, traffic problems, etc.
As an outsider [who's interested in relocating to central FL] looking in, I see the Orlando area as unique in the fact that it primarily has a tourist-based
economic base. I believe the Orlando area is either number one or two in the country in the number of hotel rooms. This would naturally lead to many unskilled, low-paying jobs in the hotels, maintenance and their upkeep. Add in all the tourist-related activities--theme parks, attractions, restaurants, and you end up with a larger than "normal" divide in median income. However, on the upside, Orlando has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. The low employment rate is a double-sided sword: lots of employment but much of it in low-paying unskilled jobs. One must also factor in the "big" unknown: if the US slips into a serious recession, vacation budgets are usually one of the first casualties, which would have a huge impact on Orlando economics. All these things factor into the "have and have-not" inequities, real and perceived.
I have the perception that Orlando is also a transient area. Many lower-paid workers, particularly immigrants, live in Orlando and other similar [industry]type cities, until they are able to move on to different areas of the country. They may well be biding their time while they save their money, learn English, learn a skill/trade, earn citizenship, etc before relocating.
I have been looking at real estate in the greater Orlando area for quite some time. It would appear that housing prices are still way out of line for the value. I can speculate that many investors bought up large chunks of the area and that individual homeowners bought at the height of the market or refinanced so that their home is now mortgaged higher than the reasonable resale value. Whatever the reason, the housing market is glutted and many properties are seriously overpriced. Can anyone explain why there are disproportionately so many homes for sale vs the population? Where are people relocating to? Do many homeowners honestly feel they are entitled to a 25-50% profit on a 2-3 year-old investment? Are the homeowners or the real estate agents driving this? I am hard pressed to leave a solid frame wood/brick home with a full basement, attached garage, heat/AC, public water/sewer and a decent size piece of land for a cinderblock slab home on a postage-stamp lot, carport, no attic or basement storage, no natural gas, and in many cases no city water/sewer, both selling for approximately the same amount or more in FL. I want no part of exclusive gated communities with the fees, restrictions, rules and regulations. For the value, what is there to be gained besides trading snow for hot, humid summer weather, giant bugs, snakes, gators and potential hurricanes/tornados?
I'm desperately trying to talk myself into relocating but am increasing having difficulty, especially after reading a lot of posts about crime, racism, etc. and reviewing the real estate ads.
Can someone help convince me of the merits of moving to Orlando? I am an early retiree babyboomer, female, English-only speaker, Protestant. I have some family in assorted FL areas, and one very close relative in Orlando. I am basicially a "spring/summer" person, enjoy gardening, cooking, day trips, antiquing, swimming, casual dining out, occasional sporting events. A part-time job wouldn't be out of the question as long as it didn't involve heavy lifting or too much standing [arthritis issues, which are made worse by cold, damp weather]. Currently live in greater Boston area where I have easy access to first-class museums, libraries, concerts, public transportation, sporting events [just try to get tickets, lol!], etc. I need to stop the fence-sitting and take some action; relocate locally* or pack up & move to FLA.
* have elderly parent that will shortly require living with me; current home not appropriate for this situation.
Thanks for any help.
Yes. WalMart does seem to be a magnet for the scrubs of society. And God help us all if the shoppers and employees are an accurate cross section of people in America. Regarding your Orlando inquiries, as you're well aware it is a service driven economy so there are plenty of jobs at hotels and the numerous chain restaurants keeping unemployment very low. What some people don't realize is the strong I.T. industry in the area. Some of the reason is our close location to the Space Coast as well as a relatively young demographics. You have companies like Siemens, Lockheed Martin, and EA Sports with a strong presence. Someone may have asked you earlier but have you checked out other areas of the state. I am more partial to the Gulf Coast as there seems to be more culture, history, and much more nature than here in central and east Florida. Look into St.Pete/Sarasota/Bradenton and possibly Tampa (lots to do but run-down). there is no sense of community or connectedness in the Orlando area.
CNNMoney.com ranked Orlando #1 for job growth over the next 3 years. The Burnham Institute has selected Orlando, FL as their new location for approximately 300 scientists plus support staff over the next 10 years. The 700 Billion dollar biomedical industry is recognizing Orlando as it's future home. As far as growth please see Cameron Kuhn's website so all of the plans and revitalization for the historic Church Street area along with two new hotels slated for downtown. The foresight of the government here to recreate a destination for local and tourist rivaling the success of the previous Church St is genious. Now tourists can venture downtown and see Orlando not only as a tourist destination but a place to purchase a secondo home or move here all together. In the last year we have watched over 7 new high rises including mixed use, residential and commercial. That was in ONE year. As far as those who continue to type about how much they "hate this craphole" I would invite you to look at Jacksonville as your next destination. The standard of living is lower and I assume that you can afford a one way tank of gas. I find your comments invalid and unsupported with facts. You may need to find a new forum to express your emotions or seek counseling to resolve some deep seated bitterness. Orlando is a wonderful city experiencing explosive growth lead by a visionary team of city planners. Those visionaries are taking all of the other mistakes made by cities nationwide and building a city based on a model proven for success nationally.
"Now tourists can venture downtown and see Orlando not only as a tourist destination but a place to purchase a secondo home or move here all together. In the last year we have watched over 7 new high rises including mixed use, residential and commercial. That was in ONE year. As far as those who continue to type about how much they "hate this craphole" I would invite you to look at Jacksonville as your next destination. The standard of living is lower and I assume that you can afford a one way tank of gas. I find your comments invalid and unsupported with facts. You may need to find a new forum to express your emotions or seek counseling to resolve some deep seated bitterness. Orlando is a wonderful city experiencing explosive growth lead by a visionary team of city planners. Those visionaries are taking all of the other mistakes made by cities nationwide and building a city based on a model proven for success nationally."
now watch as i pick this post apart... lol.
tourists? venturing into downtown now too? great!!! that's what we need --- more tourists, more ppl lost, more ppl on the roads causing more accidents, more congestion, and more road rage. we are already 2nd in the nation in road rage, do we really need to take it up a notch?
job growth? more ppl moving here? well, how long before they move out? so many ppl move in and move out, what good does that do? more houses for sale, more transient feel than we already have, less ppl that really care about a sense of community? this is supposed to be a good thing? most of the ppl moving OUT of orlando are trying to find a better place to live, to raise thier kids, to seek a better quality of life... the ppl moving in to take their place (a lot of the time) are what we call "undesirables." 3rd world folks, criminals, bring baggage with them as they try to escape whatever it is they are running from... our city may grow, but the jobs that are here are not the ones that are going to attract hard working professionals. they are in charlotte, raliegh, atlanta, etc... we have a lot of projected job growth... in service type jobs that usually are low paying.
city planners? you been on the 408? i-4? downtown? the roads are so confusing and screwy, the city planners probably get lost in orlando. orlando is not learning from other cities and thier mistakes on handling growth, cities are learning from orlando. we have north and south/east and west expressways that dont even go in the direction the road is named after.
In response to the "picking apart" please see my responses in your text in capital letters
"now watch as i pick this post apart... lol.
tourists? venturing into downtown now too? great!!! that's what we need --- more tourists, more ppl lost, more ppl on the roads causing more accidents, more congestion, and more road rage. we are already 2nd in the nation in road rage, do we really need to take it up a notch?
**WHAT PART OF THE WORLD'S #1 TOURIST DESTINATION DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU MOVED HERE? NEED I SAY MORE? ALSO PLEASE PROVIDE A REFERENCE POINT SUCH AS AN ARTICLE OR WEBSITE TO SUPPORT YOUR ROAD RAGE RANKING. IN ATLANTA I SAT IN TRAFFIC FOR 2 HOURS TO TRAVEL 10 MILES. ORLANDO IN GENERAL HAS A 30 MINUTE RUSH HOUR. IF YOU DON'T LIKE TRAFFIC THEN FORGET PROGRESS.
job growth? more ppl moving here? well, how long before they move out? so many ppl move in and move out, what good does that do? more houses for sale, more transient feel than we already have, less ppl that really care about a sense of community? this is supposed to be a good thing? most of the ppl moving OUT of orlando are trying to find a better place to live, to raise thier kids, to seek a better quality of life... the ppl moving in to take their place (a lot of the time) are what we call "undesirables." 3rd world folks, criminals, bring baggage with them as they try to escape whatever it is they are running from... our city may grow, but the jobs that are here are not the ones that are going to attract hard working professionals. they are in charlotte, raliegh, atlanta, etc... we have a lot of projected job growth... in service type jobs that usually are low paying.
**IN ANY FORUM I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU NOT USE THE TERM "UNDERSIRABLES" AS A DECRIPTION OF 3RD WORLD OR MINORITY CLASSES. IRONICALLY CAUCASION IS ACTUALLY IN THE MINORITY NOW. I AGREE THAT THERE IS A DEFECIT OF PROFESSIONAL AND SCIENTIFIC JOBS STATUS QUO HOWEVER MY POINT WAS THAT THE CITY HAS A PLAN ENACTED TO CHANGE THAT PERCEPTION IN WHICH I CITED THE BURNHAM INSTITUTE WIN FOR ORLANDO.
city planners? you been on the 408? i-4? downtown? the roads are so confusing and screwy, the city planners probably get lost in orlando. orlando is not learning from other cities and thier mistakes on handling growth, cities are learning from orlando. we have north and south/east and west expressways that dont even go in the direction the road is named after.
IN ORDER TO PROGRESS THERE HAS TO BE CHANGE AND WE ARE ALL SEEING THE CHANGES THAT ARE CURRENTLY AND OBVIOUSLY UNDERWAY. WHEN I MOVED HERE I THOUGHT THE ROADS MADE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE - IN PARTICULAR THE 408/ I-4 FIGURE "8" CONNECTION HOWEVER THE CHANGE TO CORRECT THAT IS UNDERWAY. ONCE AGAIN, WHAT'S YOUR POINT? YOU WANT PROGRESS WITH NEW JOBS, NEW CORRECTED INFRASTRUCTURE AND LESS ROAD RAGE YET YOU MY FRIEND ARE EXACTLY THE MENTALITY THAT DULLS PROGRESS. I DO THINK THAT INEVITABLY THAT WE SHARE THE SAME GOALS FOR ORLANDO. HOWEVER I DO NOT FEEL THAT YOU ARE BEING REALISTIC IN HOW WE GET THERE.
Last edited by krwhite333; 10-24-2007 at 11:43 AM..
Reason: Bolded text
maybe you dont understand. i never said i didnt know about the tourist situation when i moved here. in fact, i think it's the amount of rude/aggressive types that are the main cause. too much congestion, too many ppl, too many rude ppl on the roads... if you cant see that, i dont know what to tell ya...plus, i have shared the fact that i moved to the wrong place.
arguing about progression on the roads (what is progressive about sitting in traffic)?
did you not here on the news that our poulation is supposed to double in this area... it is just going to get worse. if you think rush hr is only 30 minutes a day, i will have to ask you where you are driving to and from. by our population doubling (supposedly, it's what they said on the news) it is going to get much worse and in fact, the newscasters said "brace yourself. if you think it's bad now, it is going to get much worse." i wont be around to see that. but i hope changes do occur for the better. i hope it does for the folks that live here and enjoy it.
new jobs coming --- promises, promises, promises. that's like the property tax situation. i'll believe it when i see it. i dont think this is something to argue about or discuss really... what may happen in the future is not worth arguing over in the present. why would someone choose orlando over towns like charlotte, raliegh, etc...? that's where the professionals are moving... you heard otherwise?
i am not going to comment about 3rd world/minority stuff... i dont want to offend, even if i dont mean to, plus, i am trying to stay in good standing with the moderators... but the fact is a lot of educated, hard-working familes are moving out as they try to provide a better quality of life for themselves and their families. we are being replaced in orlando and south fla. this is as far into this discussion as i am willing to venture.
Well, I am going to politely agree to disagree on most of your points but that's what makes this interesting. It keeps me looking at ideas and perspectives from others and questioning myself. No, I don't work for the Chamber of Commerce. I am however tired of posts that saturate Orlando with negativity. I will admit that the media in Orlando is its number one enemy. I have never heard of nor seen a city that is consistently willing to report on issues from one angle only. I do think that each story should be covered from both angles. A perfect example..the Metrowest crime wave. Metrowest's crime is down 90% since they installed the Orlando Police Substation yet there's no story highlighting this fact since. Every week is a slow news week in Orlando in my opinion and that's why I take any crisis story with a grain of salt. I will leave this discussion with a simple quote from my long gone grandmother which I use every single day on myself...."If you are complaining without offering a suitable solution then you are whining." Needless to say, I try not to complain without making an effort to find a solution.
Last edited by krwhite333; 10-24-2007 at 12:43 PM..
Reason: mispelling
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