Sunrail ridership down, Looks like an Epic Fail (Orlando: costs, airport)

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by pvande55

It is ridiculous to compare Sunrail to the commuter rail in the NE Corridor, where such trains have been running over 100 years. Compared to lines which have been commissioned in the last 20 years it has done well. And, unlike many system, trains are through-routed instead of terminated downtown. I believe when I-4 construction gets heavy a lot of folks will be happy it was available.

That's not saying a whole lot as most of the systems commissioned in the past 20 years are in cities like Orlando where the system isn't efficient for most commuters or where the traditional automobile infrastructure hasn't reached critical mass leading to alternative transportation becoming an attractive option. At a time when gasoline was looking to be permanently headed toward $5 a gallon, many of these systems looked to be attractive propositions. However with the prices down and no end in sight of "cheap gas", I would say it's safe to say those cities which have culturally been "car-centric" have little incentive to change up until heavily congested highway infrastructure (average 45-60 minute or more commutes) creates demand for commuter rail usage.

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by pvande55

It is ridiculous to compare Sunrail to the commuter rail in the NE Corridor, where such trains have been running over 100 years. Compared to lines which have been commissioned in the last 20 years it has done well. And, unlike many system, trains are through-routed instead of terminated downtown. I believe when I-4 construction gets heavy a lot of folks will be happy it was available.

Cite 'has done well'. Farebox return has yet to be tabulated for an entire year, but as of now looks to be one of the most heavily subsided in the US. Ridership is near the bottom as well too. I'm very curious how you define 'has done well'.

Major NE systems have trains that terminate downtown because they aren't landlocked like Orlando, and because the major commercial industry is 'downtown', with the exception of New York where it's moreso in Midtown. Orlando has 90% of it's business and employees work outside the downtown core.

Downtown Orlando is more an entertainment, leisure, and nightlife destination. Things that might moreso benefit from weekend train service, if the riders could support it.

[pvande55]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Cite 'has done well'. Farebox return has yet to be tabulated for an entire year, but as of now looks to be one of the most heavily subsided in the US. Ridership is near the bottom as well too. I'm very curious how you define 'has done well'.

Major NE systems have trains that terminate downtown because they aren't landlocked like Orlando, and because the major commercial industry is 'downtown', with the exception of New York where it's moreso in Midtown. Orlando has 90% of it's business and employees work outside the downtown core.

Downtown Orlando is more an entertainment, leisure, and nightlife destination. Things that might moreso benefit from weekend train service, if the riders could support it.

Glad to.
List of United States commuter rail systems by ridership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As you can see, only five commissioned since 1995 have higher ridership, seven have lower. Of course it will probably never reach the level of LA's vast network (the 1994 earthquake gave it a boost). And the numbers for fare recovery will likely be a long time coming, as they have had glitches with their collection system.

[OrlFlaUsa]

The abundance of idiotic thinking on this thread is enough for me to come out of hiding. SunRail got built, it's certainly not useless, and has a bright future we're all going to pay for. Get over it. It was built on existing rail where it should have been built 30 years ago. Give it 30 more and the rail corridor will rival or surpass I4 in terms of being a central location. And to the person stuck at 434 and Ronald Reagan, know that we're laughing at you as we cruise to work on the train.

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

The abundance of idiotic thinking on this thread is enough for me to come out of hiding. SunRail got built, it's certainly not useless, and has a bright future we're all going to pay for. Get over it. It was built on existing rail where it should have been built 30 years ago. Give it 30 more and the rail corridor will rival or surpass I4 in terms of being a central location. And to the person stuck at 434 and Ronald Reagan, know that we're laughing at you as we cruise to work on the train.

I can see a better future for SunRail, the complaints of many- including myself- is that it wasn't built to maximize transit needs TODAY.
The omission of track at the Airport, UCF, Disney, or the largest shopping centers in Orlando takes away a transit option for those who need it the most.

The majority of SunRail ridership is between the Hospital and Altamonte. Middle to higher than average income areas where car ridership is more than likely an option.

... and no, we're not stuck paying for it.
5 years from now the people of Central Florida can elect to raise fares to become nearly self sustaining, or reject federal funds and let the thing sit there. I will violently campaign against a single tax levied to support a poorly conceived public transit system.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

The abundance of idiotic thinking on this thread is enough for me to come out of hiding. SunRail got built, it's certainly not useless, and has a bright future we're all going to pay for. Get over it. It was built on existing rail where it should have been built 30 years ago. Give it 30 more and the rail corridor will rival or surpass I4 in terms of being a central location. And to the person stuck at 434 and Ronald Reagan, know that we're laughing at you as we cruise to work on the train.

Well, well...there's the poms poms (and speaking of idiotic thinking).... Give it 30 years and it'll surpass I-4 as a transportation mode? LOL. For those with any sense of urban planning and development that certainly takes the cake. Where exactly will the new center of employment that SunRail will remarkably become convenient for crop up? The Orlando metro has and always will be a region that develops outward (versus in) and to suggest suddenly there'll be a focus on infill development, particularly with housing, is completely delusional.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

The abundance of idiotic thinking on this thread is enough for me to come out of hiding. SunRail got built, it's certainly not useless, and has a bright future we're all going to pay for. Get over it. It was built on existing rail where it should have been built 30 years ago. Give it 30 more and the rail corridor will rival or surpass I4 in terms of being a central location. And to the person stuck at 434 and Ronald Reagan, know that we're laughing at you as we cruise to work on the train.

You make a lot of assumptions. It serves a very small population and will continue to serve a very small population.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

I can see a better future for SunRail, the complaints of many- including myself- is that it wasn't built to maximize transit needs TODAY.
The omission of track at the Airport, UCF, Disney, or the largest shopping centers in Orlando takes away a transit option for those who need it the most.

The majority of SunRail ridership is between the Hospital and Altamonte. Middle to higher than average income areas where car ridership is more than likely an option.

... and no, we're not stuck paying for it.
5 years from now the people of Central Florida can elect to raise fares to become nearly self sustaining, or reject federal funds and let the thing sit there. I will violently campaign against a single tax levied to support a poorly conceived public transit system.

If and when they ever run it to Disney and charge a high enough fare to cover actual costs and help subsidize the rest I might feel differently. Until then this is a pork project that benefits only upper income people living and working in pricey real estate areas.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by annerk

If and when they ever run it to Disney and charge a high enough fare to cover actual costs and help subsidize the rest I might feel differently. Until then this is a pork project that benefits only upper income people living and working in pricey real estate areas.

A track running from MCO to I-Drive and to Disney would be ideal.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

A track running from MCO to I-Drive and to Disney would be ideal.

And where a planning commission with any iota of sense would have focused. Of course it didn't help that our nimrod governor rejected federal funds that could have been utilized to build it, versus resorting to less-costly operation on existing freight tracks which are obviously not addressing the primary need for mass transit in the area.