Question on the new Brightline "All Aboard" train Orlando to Miami? (Hialeah: transfer, cost of)

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by Hammocks Bum

I guess for you State of The ART is driving on the Nasty and Expensive Turnpike 4 hrs PLUS.

There is absolutely nothing NASTY about Florida's Turnpike. It's quite a well maintained road.

I take I-95. It's 4.5 hours, often more. About 3 dollars in tolls going East on 538.
The turnpike can be a time saver, but rarely is- and thusly doesn't justify the 14 bucks or so each way.

If Brightline is $70 each way. Parking at MCO is $10 a day. and the route to Miami is 3.5 hours. I can't see any circumstance in which that holds any value. Why not just fly?

The "High Speed Rail" would need to cut Orlando to Lauderdale in 2 hours to be a worthy competitor.

This isn't a viable alternative, just as SunRail is failing in Central Florida- which I was quite outspoken about.
Florida needs VIABLE public transit, and it needs it now. These failed efforts pork projects are going to hold back long term growth.

[bmw335xi]

1) You don’t have to show up 2 hours early

2) You can uber to the airport

3) It’s not about saving money, you can take a greyhound if that’s your main purpose. It’s about convienence and quality. After traveling around Europe and Asia, I understand the love of train travel, it beats the hell out of flying and that entire process leading up and after the flight.

I do agree with you that there is nothing nasty about the turnpike. It’s just a very boring drive with no scenery.

[Hammocks Bum]

Be on the Tpke on a bz weekend.......2 two lanes each way do not cut the cake. and EXPENSIVE......Just as anticuated as AMTRAK !!!

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by floridarebel

It's pathetic. Only 125 mph? Total time of 3 hours? The area needs the hyperloop train they've been talking about asap. Take you from Orlando to Miami in 30 minutes.

It will be very interesting to see how that technology progresses. That along with automated vehicles will seriously revolutionize transportation and may either totally wipeout existing public transit or find a way for them to be complementary. We shall see, it certainly is an interesting time.

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Should the private company get bailout money for a business plan that can't possibly succeed?

No they should not. I am a supporter but the answer is simple. We'll see...

Originally Posted by WithDisp

There is absolutely nothing NASTY about Florida's Turnpike. It's quite a well maintained road.

I take I-95. It's 4.5 hours, often more. About 3 dollars in tolls going East on 538.
The turnpike can be a time saver, but rarely is- and thusly doesn't justify the 14 bucks or so each way.

If Brightline is $70 each way. Parking at MCO is $10 a day. and the route to Miami is 3.5 hours. I can't see any circumstance in which that holds any value. Why not just fly?

The "High Speed Rail" would need to cut Orlando to Lauderdale in 2 hours to be a worthy competitor.

This isn't a viable alternative, just as SunRail is failing in Central Florida- which I was quite outspoken about.
Florida needs VIABLE public transit, and it needs it now. These failed efforts pork projects are going to hold back long term growth.

You dont have to take it. I see no problem with a private real estate company choosing to risk private capital to add an amenity for residents and visitors of our state. Again you don't have to take it.

Funny thing that the interstate and turnpike both cost taxpayers a great deal of money and you even say the cost of maintaining the turnpike (your tolls) makes it not worth traveling on. So let a private company offer up an alternative which you can choose to use or not. No need to get worked up about it. You may end up being right about Sunrail, but Fortress Investment Group is putting up its own cash so no need to worry. Plus they are owned by a Japanese company (Softbank) so I doubt they have expectations of a US bailout for all the conspiracy theorists who have chimed in on these threads.

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by projectmaximus

Funny thing that the interstate and turnpike both cost taxpayers a great deal of money and you even say the cost of maintaining the turnpike (your tolls) makes it not worth traveling on. So let a private company offer up an alternative which you can choose to use or not. No need to get worked up about it. You may end up being right about Sunrail, but Fortress Investment Group is putting up its own cash so no need to worry. Plus they are owned by a Japanese company (Softbank) so I doubt they have expectations of a US bailout for all the conspiracy theorists who have chimed in on these threads.

Brightline seeks to fund Phase 2 (to Orlando) with a Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing loan.
That's federal money- which if defaulted on, IS something to get worked up over.

There is no guarantee Phase 2 ever gets off the ground, so it's questionable as to why the Orlando end is putting up the money in collaboration with the Transit Modal Interchange center at MCO. It's evident there's an expectation funding will be found, regardless of viability.

... and I wouldn't quite call this all conspiracy theory. There is only -1- profitable railway in all of the United States, and little seems to support this being matched outside of BOSWASH. Brightline has no financial history of this trip or proposed fares to explain their business model. If they walked into any bank with this business plan, they would not be able to secure any funding.

Hence all the work up from many sources- it's not that the IDEA in theory is a bad one, it's just that it doesn't make enough sense to work.

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

1) You don’t have to show up 2 hours early

2) You can uber to the airport

3) It’s not about saving money, you can take a greyhound if that’s your main purpose. It’s about convienence and quality. After traveling around Europe and Asia, I understand the love of train travel, it beats the hell out of flying and that entire process leading up and after the flight.

I do agree with you that there is nothing nasty about the turnpike. It’s just a very boring drive with no scenery.

1. You can get to the airport 30-45 minutes before your domestic travel, I'm TSA Precheck and never arrive more than an hour before my flight.

2. Sure you can uber and from the airport, but now your 140 R/T becomes at least 160 R/T. It starts to question the value of the train.

3. Euro Trains and Asian trains are convenient and FAST. 190-270 MPH. It's hard to say you are comparing apples to apples when it comes to TSA and US Travel though. Domestic Travel by air in other countries isn't the pain US Flying has endured since 9-11. There is no guarantee, in fact almost a certainty, that American HSR can be subject to the TSA at the whim of congress. If the TSA's union starts seeing staffing minimized because of switches from Plane to Train travel in the US, you can just imagine what commotion will happen.

[ByeByeLW]

The turnpike itself may not be nasty. Some of the drivers sure are.

Idiots riding each other’s bumpers makes me doubt people more than I already do.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

1. You can get to the airport 30-45 minutes before your domestic travel, I'm TSA Precheck and never arrive more than an hour before my flight.

2. Sure you can uber and from the airport, but now your 140 R/T becomes at least 160 R/T. It starts to question the value of the train.

3. Euro Trains and Asian trains are convenient and FAST. 190-270 MPH. It's hard to say you are comparing apples to apples when it comes to TSA and US Travel though. Domestic Travel by air in other countries isn't the pain US Flying has endured since 9-11. There is no guarantee, in fact almost a certainty, that American HSR can be subject to the TSA at the whim of congress. If the TSA's union starts seeing staffing minimized because of switches from Plane to Train travel in the US, you can just imagine what commotion will happen.

1) Showing up 30-45 minutes before your flight is BS for the average traveler lol

2) Once again, people looking for the cheapest option will always go with greyhound, an advanced train is not seeking these customers

3) You are talking possibilities, anything is possible in the future, flying overseas is pretty similar, I go overseas multiple times per year

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

... and I wouldn't quite call this all conspiracy theory. There is only -1- profitable railway in all of the United States, and little seems to support this being matched outside of BOSWASH. Brightline has no financial history of this trip or proposed fares to explain their business model. If they walked into any bank with this business plan, they would not be able to secure any funding.

Why do you continue to ignore the facts? I think you have read many of my posts about this (maybe I am wrong, I have not gone back to look) but if you havent you certainly have researched it on your own, no? It seems like you are knowledgable so you cant play ignorant or naive.

This is a real estate company using rail service to increase its ROI in real estate. Before the first line even became operational they had already seen something like a 100% increase in property values. This business model has not existed in modern America before...but it is quite common and successful in other parts of the world. It is nothing like the Acela and isnt intended to be.

As I continue to admit, this is definitely not going to be a slam dunk in Florida. It may or may not work, time will tell. But you are incredibly disingenuous to compare it to the BOSWASH corridor or suggest they have never "explained their business model." They are hoping to recover maintenance and operations costs through fares and if they can drive ridership they will payback the bonds and see profit from the real estate uses.

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by projectmaximus

As I continue to admit, this is definitely not going to be a slam dunk in Florida. It may or may not work, time will tell. But you are incredibly disingenuous to compare it to the BOSWASH corridor or suggest they have never "explained their business model." They are hoping to recover maintenance and operations costs through fares and if they can drive ridership they will payback the bonds and see profit from the real estate uses.

... and a real estate agency has little business in building and operating a billion dollar train line that stands less than 1% chance of turning profit.

Forum posters on here clamored over the future success of SunRail years ago. SunRail hemmorages millions of dollars a year and -in fact- creates more traffic than it resolves because of at grade train crossing and abysmally low ridership.

Brightline continues to 'keep a closed business model' because they wont admit what the costs of tickets will be or what they need to break even in farebox recovery.

I've said what I could say, and if people want to pay 4x the cost of a bus to get to Miami an hour earlier, or 2x the cost of flying and get there slower- power to them. There's an absolute certainty that this will not go down without Federal Gov't lending or Brightline walking away from the project, or both.