Mass Shooting At Downtown Nightclub (Orlando: attorney, calculated, mold)

[SusieClue]

Originally Posted by LuvOrlando

It's about both. The terrorists happen to hate homosexuality almost as much as Americans, so gay Americans are a double whammy.

The idea that this guy was just one "lone wolf" out to kill men is bizarre and I don't know why people are pretending that this isn't a terrorist issue. I have yet to figure it out. I get why the government does it (if they say there is no terrorism, nobody expects them to do anything about it), but not why individual people do.

It was a gay club. It was an unarmed group of young men, so easy pickins, but it was a gay club. It was singled out for both reasons, I'm sure.

The facts are that Islamists seek to destroy AMERICA and our value system, and family. Homosexuality is simply a SUBSET TARGET of the IDEOLOGY. Homosexuals are not the primary focus of destruction. It's the WEST, Christianity, our values. The WAR is not declared on Americans simply because of the existence of "homosexuals" and "homosexual conduct". Get it ?? let's NOT conflate these issues. Let's NOT use terrorism to "advance the agenda" of the homosexual community, such as having "gender neutral bathrooms" or advancing the 50-state legality of homosexual, or man-boy marriage/relationships. Let's understand this clearly. This terrorist act against America shouldn't be turned into a political opportunity to advance changes in LAW within the United States for example through some specious legislative efforts designed to "piggy-back" on a clear, terrorist act...in other words "scape-goating"....this even applies to such issues as "gun control" in America. Let's get this right, and be very very clear. This should not be used as some kind of cause celebre for domestic homosexual "agenda" or homosexual "rights". Let's not be this stupid.

[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by Dd714

Some of you guys have like a one track mind. Give it a rest! This is why these things keep on occurring - this single minded devotion to an agenda and not a solution.

He wasn't only able to buy a rifle, he was a SECURITY GUARD AT A COURT HOUSE. We have existing gun regulations and mechanisms already in place that should have prevented a person like this buying this weapon - the FBI should have flagged him in NICS, informed his employer, notified local authorities. Address the root cause. Don't put in new laws, because they will be just as innefective. Find out why existing procceses failed.

Have you once yet in all your posts on this topic addressed the self-radicalization issue?

Your recommendations are a violation of an American citizens rights and freedoms.

The guy was never arrested or convicted of any crimes. In fact the FBI cleared him from their investigations.
We dont live in the world of the Gestapo where our movements and actions are subject to permanent scrutiny by the government. Having the the FBI putting him in the NICS, informing his employer and notifying local authorities are actions reserved for those who committed crimes and have been found guilty in a court of law.

[SusieClue]

The problem is that the shooter HAD in fact BEEN ON A NO-FLY LIST but was REMOVED by the FBI...did you know that?


Also, please know that the shooter's wife knew exactly what he was planning, and was in fact driving her HUSBAND around to "case" and surveil various other locations including Disney itself.


The shooter's WIFE was also dropping her husband off to go into several homosexual clubs and gathering spots.


Why do other homosexuals quickly assert that the shooter *must be* a "conflicted homosexual", when in fact it's more likely he was doing reconnaissance in tandem with his own WIFE ?

[LuvOrlando]

Originally Posted by Dd714

I'm told Disney won't even allow off duty police in the park with their service weapons. I can assure you the only guy with a gun in that park would be the bad guy.

I know that they don't let good guys bring guns. Fine by me so long as they have a whole bunch of armed guards who won't hesitate to go to the problem and shoot the bad guy. I'd rather have other people prepared and protecting me than have to carry a gun around. I don't want to carry a gun. The whole idea is...I don't even know the word. I like being protected and I don't like this whole new world where we have to think about our safety and protecting ourselves. I am not ready to carry a gun.

If they've set it up so that only bad guys can come in with guns and they don't have their own armed force, it's going to be a sad and bloody day when they get hit. I will very much blame them for it, too.

Metal detectors do nothing except create an area with a bunch of people close together. They HAVE to have a small army surrounding those parks, weapons loaded. And veterans, if possible.

Bad guys don't stop to have their bags checked. They don't stop for metal detectors. Cameras just record stuff. They need armed men, ready to shoot.

They better have them.

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Your recommendations are a violation of an American citizens rights and freedoms.

The guy was never arrested or convicted of any crimes. In fact the FBI cleared him from their investigations.
We dont live in the world of the Gestapo where our movements and actions are subject to permanent scrutiny by the government. Having the the FBI putting him in the NICS, informing his employer and notifying local authorities are actions reserved for those who committed crimes and have been found guilty in a court of law.

Well that's the balancing act indeed. We live in a free society where the guilty are presumed innocent and poltical correctness rules. However....hell you can put anyone in NICS by a simple phone call to them, yes you as a civilian can do it yourself on another person. This guy was cleared but, come on, two background checks and a watch list by the FBI that clearly, if not convicting him of a crime, gave evidence of him being self-radicalized? Due process will still be served - you get denied and have a right to appeal and the government has 3 days to report yes or no. About 100,000 gun sales are denied a year via the background check system, but no one bothered to register this nut with all the red flags?

Yes there is a segment of the gun owning community that don't like the background check process, but it beats some of the gun control measures I see proposed here. I can live with it...it's in place - make it work.

[Pincho-toot]

Originally Posted by SusieClue

The problem is that the shooter HAD in fact BEEN ON A NO-FLY LIST but was REMOVED by the FBI...did you know that?


Also, please know that the shooter's wife knew exactly what he was planning, and was in fact driving her HUSBAND around to "case" and surveil various other locations including Disney itself.


The shooter's WIFE was also dropping her husband off to go into several homosexual clubs and gathering spots.


Why do other homosexuals quickly assert that the shooter *must be* a "conflicted homosexual", when in fact it's more likely he was doing reconnaissance in tandem with his own WIFE ?

The man had visited the club many times before, that he was recognised by survivors. He was known to be an aggressively drunk clubgoer. He was found on gay hook up apps. I mean, COME ON! The funny thing (in a twisted sense of irony) is how ISIS claims this guy is one of them. What a frontman, huh? This guy literally goes against everything Islam claims to stand for (except you know, killing those that you don't agree with) He drinks and he's a closet sword swallower.

[LuvOrlando]

We don't know that he was gay or...whatever. Everyone wants to classify everyone. I was cool with LGBT. Then they added the Q and I was like, "Do we really need a Q?" Yes, people said, we have to have a Q. We have to include everyone.

I was never totally cool with the Q and already like, "Stop, already" but then they added...I don't even know all the letters. I'm done with the letters. I am not a letter. I will not be defined by a letter and I don't want a letter. Prefer not to be included in the letters. Thanks, anyway.

Want to include everyone? Here are your letters: AP. Like the flour. All People.

We don't know what this guy's sexuality was and I don't care. The only letters he claimed were ISIS and those are bad enough. The rest doesn't matter. Who cares about his sexual preferences?

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by Dd714

Not entirely correct, it seems he retreated to the restroom and then exited the restroom to make phone calls. It's unclear if the police likewise retreated. Witnesses report him leasurely executing the injured.

The police apparently thought this was a hostage situation and that the shooter had explosives. Weather that was the right or wrong decision given the circumstances is a fair question and subject to review when all the facts come out.

He told 911 he was wired with a bomb and was wired hostages, too.

Reportedly, this killer frequented gay clubs and online sites as well as being one ugly drunk.

He previously claimed support of a variety of opposing terrorist orgs and did not seem to know the difference.

It's going to take serious time to peel this onion, assuming they ever do.

[SmartMoney]

I heard a fabulous solution today, I believe it was an opinion piece from Dave Ross at CBS. His solution is really elegant. First, gun dealers, right now, nationwide have the right to refuse a sale to anyone, for any reason, at any time. Period.

His solution was to distribute the no-fly list and the persons of interest lists to the local gun dealers. No one has a more vested interest in getting this right. Most dealers have more integrity in their pinkie fingers than half of the fickle, so-called patriots that was to strip all rights of every citizen. The last thing a dealer wants to see is he sold the gun that killed many.

I know the argument if it's one more sale, the gun dealer won't care who buys it. If you believe that, you don't know the typical NRA card-carrying 2nd Amendment supporter who mutters "Amurica" as he raises his US flag outside his business. One thing they all have in common, the deep desire to blow up every terrorist, abroad and homegrown. They sure as hell won't put a gun in their hands.

So simple, it could work.

[DreamerD]

Originally Posted by BadgerFilms

This tragedy has shook me immensely. As a gay Floridian, whose family lives in Florida, and the closest relatives to me are 14 hours away to the southeast... this hit real close to home. My closest cousin (by personal closeness, I don't mean like 1st cousin..) is gay, he could have easily been in that club that night for whatever reason. My 2nd closest cousin was in the theme parks, which the gunman had considered targetting. He could have easily done this in Magic Kingdom, or Epcot, or anywhere, taken out so many more lives. But 50 is 50 too many.

This is not the kind of world, and kind of America I wanna live in. Where we can no longer feel safe because of cowards who can't come to terms with their own sexuality and insecurities, and religions that teach hatred towards those who are different. This is a bleak time we're living in. I hate waking up and hearing about killings in Paris or Brussels or that black churchgoers were massacred by a white supremacist.

Please, do not blame all Muslims for this, but at the same time, do not turn a blind eye to a religion that is in much need of reform, and where as a result, gays are executed regularly in the Middle East.

This tragedy has hit me hard. We had a small party last night, to kind of lighten the whole mood. Cooked some food, had some drinks. I got drunk after only two bottles and as we prayed before eating, I broke out into sobs. It's terrible. Orlando has had the worst weekend ever for them.

A religion? I think that that should be plural. I'm not even sure if religion (specifically Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc.) should be reformed. They can't be reformed.