Rising Housing Costs vs. Stagnant Incomes - What will come of it? (Orlando: renter, house prices)

[Arcenal813]

It could be a lot worse... My friend in NYC is a detective for Port Authority. Makes a solid living. Yet, this is where he can afford to live https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6971...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Mind you, he lives upstairs, and his unit is half of the upstairs. No privacy whatsoever, as people cross each other on the stairs. You can barely even stand in his bedroom because the ceiling is low and arched.
Oh, and across the street? The ever so great South Jamaica Houses.

To be fair, the main reason why the average salaries in Orlando seem lower than many other places is because of the high percentage of people (especially college students) working in the service industry, catering to the millions of tourists we get here. Those working professional jobs are not making poor wages. And there are quite a few professional jobs out there. Heck, you can even find some call centers here that pay decent.

Also, these rising housing costs, I've noticed, are mostly limited to Orlando itself. If you head out into the suburbs, you can still find very affordable places. Seminole and Lake counties both have very affordable, fairly new homes.
A small development down the road from my house just got completed. New homes are being sold anywhere from $180k to $250k. The houses are between 1,600-2,100 sqft.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Iris14

No offense, but I think it is quite laughable to compare Orlando to any of those cities. People move to those cities because they have advanced degrees or skills and can potentially get excellent paying jobs in the businesses or industries that populate those areas. There are no Facebooks or Wall Streets or Hollywoods or...well, I could go on and on, but you get the picture, in Orlando. The fact that housing costs rise in desirable, well-paid areas is to be expected. The question posed though was about how they rising so steeply here, a city where the proportions do not add up. Don't get me wrong, I think that San Francisco and maybe even New York are crazily priced, but people living there seem to be able to pay it, or at least they stay there and keep working. Maybe your friend has to have roommates, but on the other hand she probably wouldn't be making $90K in Orlando or another more "affordable" city - or else why not move? I would love to live in those cities, but I am poorer and could never afford it so I don't even entertain moving there.

The rents here have also gone crazy. I moved to my current house 5 years ago, I pay $1100 a month rent, less than 1500 SF. The EXACT house down the street rented out a few months ago for $1650. The one directly next door sold for $270K a few months ago (which I think was crazy; it's bigger but also 25 years old and not even that nice). I don't live in a fancy area; I am near Conway, less than a block away from Semoran Blvd. and Curry Ford. Not Dr. Philips or Winter Park.

You keep comparing Orlando to San Francisco (which I think is crazy, culture-wise), BUT ---- I think the point you're missing is that no one who lives here actually wants it to become like that here, a place where only rich people can live comfortably and everyone else should just suck it up and learn to love sharing a condo in Pine Hills because housing has become barely affordable for even middle-income households. I don't care that everyone in San Francisco pays a gazillion dollars to live there, that's their problem. I don't think anyone thinks San Francisco is a city that should be held up as a positive example regarding affordability and income equality. I do however care about Orlando and it's future because I live here, and so do my friends and family, and not all of them have great paying jobs, just like an awful lot of other people in Orlando.

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. People have this fantasy that the higher wages results in better housing than compared to Orlando. This isn't true.

The median household income in San Francisco is $88,518 (2015 The Census ACS 1)
The median household income in Orlando is $51,077 (2015 The Census ACS 1)

Now compare them to the median home prices...

The median home price in San Francisco is roughly $1,290,000
The median home price in Orlando is roughly $181,900

This is one of the reasons why you see tens of thousands of homeless people in a 7x7 mile area in San Francisco. So many spoiled Orlandoians orgasm to the thought of moving to a city like San Francisco, while complaining they can't afford a 4 bedroom McMansion in a good neighborhood for their family of 4. They think, "OMG YOU EXPECT ME, LIKE ME, TO LIVE IN A CONDO!? YUCK!!"

How many professionals in their late 30's in Orlando who make more than $51,000 share an apartment with multiple room mates? Think about that.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. People have this fantasy that the higher wages results in better housing than compared to Orlando. This isn't true.

The median household income in San Francisco is $88,518 (2015 The Census ACS 1)
The median household income in Orlando is $51,077 (2015 The Census ACS 1)

Now compare them to the median home prices...

The median home price in San Francisco is roughly $1,290,000
The median home price in Orlando is roughly $181,900

This is one of the reasons why you see tens of thousands of homeless people in a 7x7 mile area in San Francisco. So many spoiled Orlandoians orgasm to the thought of moving to a city like San Francisco, while complaining they can't afford a 4 bedroom McMansion in a good neighborhood for their family of 4. They think, "OMG YOU EXPECT ME, LIKE ME, TO LIVE IN A CONDO!? YUCK!!"

How many professionals in their late 30's in Orlando who make more than $51,000 share an apartment with multiple room mates? Think about that.

Couldn't have said it better. What's with this need to buy 2,500+ sqft homes for small families? I understand if one can afford a luxurious lifestyle, but for an average family, there is no need for that. You can fairly easily find nice houses (albeit, maybe a bit older) for around and under $200k, including a large amount of condos scattered around the area.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

Couldn't have said it better. What's with this need to buy 2,500+ sqft homes for small families? I understand if one can afford a luxurious lifestyle, but for an average family, there is no need for that. You can fairly easily find nice houses (albeit, maybe a bit older) for around and under $200k, including a large amount of condos scattered around the area.

It's funny because the same people who complain about not being able to afford a McMansion talk about places like California as heaven. They don't realize most people there aren't working as CEO's of startups. The average household income is only $30-40k more than Orlando, yet housing prices are 1,000,000,000,000,000% higher. A $800,000 single family home gets you an old ugly in a ghetto where you'll hear gun shots on a weekly basis.

[WithDisp]

You really can't compare SF, LA, or NYC. When you discuss housing, those places have incredible wealth and RENT CONTROL which completely distorts the free market.

Those places are equally out of control.

Use Sacramento as a baseline, or Houston, both similar to Orlandos make up but with much more thriving economies and housing is still a better bargain.

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

It could be a lot worse... My friend in NYC is a detective for Port Authority. Makes a solid living. Yet, this is where he can afford to live https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6971...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Mind you, he lives upstairs, and his unit is half of the upstairs. No privacy whatsoever, as people cross each other on the stairs. You can barely even stand in his bedroom because the ceiling is low and arched.
Oh, and across the street? The ever so great South Jamaica Houses.

.

Something is off there. A PANYNJ detective makes 100K after 5 years. They average at 130K. With full medical and retirement.

Union Jobs in New York pay well enough to live decent.
Is he the only person working in his household?

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

All those cities have powerhouse economies with incredible job opportunities. Orlando absolutely does not.

The desirable expensive cities like Ft. Lauderdale and Miami have a lot of foreign money and retirees coming in. Also, Orlando does not. Those two are the only cities in the nation that beat Orlando in home/rental affordability vs. income.

Orlando is still more affordable than many other cities given the salary differential. You literally cannot buy a place in SF unless you are a multi millionaire

Btw Orlando does have international interest....I know for a fact from the Chinese, Brazilians, British and Canadians to name a few groups

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

You really can't compare SF, LA, or NYC. When you discuss housing, those places have incredible wealth and RENT CONTROL which completely distorts the free market.

Those places are equally out of control.

Use Sacramento as a baseline, or Houston, both similar to Orlandos make up but with much more thriving economies and housing is still a better bargain.

Why? Sacramento is a dump, and certainly not on par with a more global city like Orlando. Houston is distorted by the oil economy,, but moreover is a the third largest city in the country (maybe fourth, not sure if it has passed Chicago), hardly comparable to Orlando

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by chopchop0

Why? Sacramento is a dump, and certainly not on par with a more global city like Orlando. Houston is distorted by the oil economy,, but moreover is a the third largest city in the country (maybe fourth, not sure if it has passed Chicago), hardly comparable to Orlando

Sacramento is the capital of California. It is no more or less a 'global city' than Orlando, FL, nor is sit a dump. Orlando is a major tourist attraction, not a major hub of anything.

Orlando and Houston have near identical sprawl and densities. If Orange County, FL consoldated into a single city it wouldn't be that radically different from Houston- minus the energy economy.

What cities do you suggest comparing to Orlando?
It's a 250K City and 1M population county. It's up there with all the other 'B' cities of the country, just with an immense tourist following.

[boy3365]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

I disagree with the comparison points because Orlando lacks the economic diversity and salaries associated with cities like Baltimore, Portland and Charlotte. San Antonio could be a stretch and would agree Las Vegas is quite similar and pretty much in the same boat from what we're hearing about housing costs versus typical salaries.

Huh? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. It's certainly okay to say that Baltimore, Portland, and Charlotte are better than Metro Orlando on whatever metrics, but how is it not wise to compare areas with similar populations to Orlando as opposed to the constant comparisons people do of Orlando to NYC/CHI/LA/SF?