What does Orlando need to make it a wolrd class city? (Deltona: new house, construction)

[GABMER]

Tampa is economically declining, while Orlando is expanding

Orlando is expanding? how?

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by GABMER

Orlando is expanding? how?

More people are moving here than are leaving.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by annerk

Insurance is based on risk. It's not free. You get what you pay for. I chose to spend my money on better insurance rather than cigarettes or many other wasteful things that people spend money on.

Ahhhh, I see. So most people don't have as good of insurance as you carry because they smoke cigarettes instead? You're missing the point which you seem to get on toll roads but miss here...

WHY should people have to spend more on their insurance to basically cover those who don't have insurance???

As I see it, risk has ZERO to do with that. EVERY driver in Florida has about an equal chance of getting clipped by an uninsured motorist, wouldn't you think?

Originally Posted by annerk

I don't think that people who don't use roads should be forced to subsidize those that do. Tolls roads are always nothing more than a convenience. There are always other non-toll roads to take.

Welcome to the world of "taxes"..... Did the fireman come to your house last year? Did you ride in an ambulance last year? Did you call a cop to investigate shady happenings in your neighborhood last year?

No???

Then why the heck should YOU have to pay for it, right???

Originally Posted by annerk

Not at all. I think people have to have the common sense to find a job they can earn a living at, that job doesn't always have to have a degree behind it. I know at least a dozen people making $45K and up who have no degree.

I do as well, but they are the exception, not the norm....

Originally Posted by annerk

After midnight, uh yeah. And generally when I go downtown I wouldn't be coming home until late.

Funny, most people who ride mass-transit, light-rail systems do so during daylight hours. Not sure where your not wishing to ride it in the wee hours of the morning has to do with whether Orlando should build a system out toward Clermont or not...

Originally Posted by annerk

Like I said, I don't care if it goes in. I do care of the residents of Lake County end up haing to pay for something that 99.99% of us wouldn't use.

This is the short-sightedness that people are complaining about.... Clermont has been one of the FASTEST growing areas in the Greater Orlando region. I'm guessing most of those people do NOT work in Clermont.... They commute..... I've been on 50 during rush hour, have you???

Wanna tell me again how those in Lake County wouldn't benefit? Or how only .01% of Lake County residents would use it? Light rail transit is meant to benefit communities EXACTLY like Clermont. Heck, people in Winter Park don't need it as much as those in Clermont do!!!

Originally Posted by annerk

There's no cloud there. I don't believe that light rail would be at all beneficial to Lake County. If Orange County wants to build and pay for it, have at it. But it needs to be paid for by those who will derive benefit from it, and I'm not seeing Lake County seeing any benefit at all.

Simply, flat out incorrect. As I said, Orlando has been expanding by leaps and bounds out in that direction and the traffic is rediculous coming in on 50.... I don't see how you can claim that Lake County wouldn't benefit...

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler

Ahhhh, I see. So most people don't have as good of insurance as you carry because they smoke cigarettes instead? You're missing the point which you seem to get on toll roads but miss here...

WHY should people have to spend more on their insurance to basically cover those who don't have insurance???

In the perfect world, they shouldn't. I'm all for automatic impound of any car without insurance, and mandatory license suspension for a first violation, arrest and mandatory jail for a second. I live in the real world which unfortunately isn't perfect. The cigarettes comment was to show you that we all have different things we choose to spend our money on, I choose to spend mine on adequate insurance to protect my assets.

As I see it, risk has ZERO to do with that. EVERY driver in Florida has about an equal chance of getting clipped by an uninsured motorist, wouldn't you think?

Yes, which is why because we don't live in a perfect world, I choose to protect myself the best way I know how by adequately insuring myself against morons and deadbeats. And it's not just uninsured motorists, it's also underinsured motorists.

Welcome to the world of "taxes"..... Did the fireman come to your house last year? Did you ride in an ambulance last year? Did you call a cop to investigate shady happenings in your neighborhood last year?

No???

Then why the heck should YOU have to pay for it, right???

Actually let's see. Fire, no. Ambulance, my son did, and got a $1000 bill for a two miles ride that insurace covered half of. Police, yup, they were called to my neighborhood several times. I have no problem with paying taxes for services that protect us, for schools, and for basic roadways. I ahve a problem paying higher taxes for expressways only used by a few when a perfectly adequate albeit more crowded non-toll road exists alongside it.

I do as well, but they are the exception, not the norm....

I diagree. I know a lot of mechanics, electricians, and HVAC guys who never went to college and are pulling in minimum $40K.

Funny, most people who ride mass-transit, light-rail systems do so during daylight hours. Not sure where your not wishing to ride it in the wee hours of the morning has to do with whether Orlando should build a system out toward Clermont or not...

Did you miss where I pointed out that Lynx operates a commuter bus to Clermont, and only about 50-70 poeple a day use it? Why do you think any more would use a train? Most of us in Lake County live here because we enjoy a more rural/suburban way of life. Most residents work here, not in downtown Orlando. Very few Lake County residents would welcome a train that would bring nothing but transients and crime into our quiet county. The problem is that Orange County has already made noise taht they want Lake County to help pay for it. No thanks, we aren't interested.

This is the short-sightedness that people are complaining about.... Clermont has been one of the FASTEST growing areas in the Greater Orlando region. I'm guessing most of those people do NOT work in Clermont.... They commute..... I've been on 50 during rush hour, have you???

And that's where you are very wrong. Take just a single street where I live. There isn't a single eprson who works in Orlando. One works near Florida Mall, one works at Disney, One works at Universal. Of the rest, 8 work in Clermont, three work in nearby Lake County towns. Of the 100 or so people I know who live in Clermont, less than 25% work outside of Lake County. When you take out the ones that work for Disney (and no one is going to drive to a train station to get on a train for Orlando so they can transfer for a train to Disney to get to work when they can drive there in less than half the time) that leaves less than 10%. Out of those, most work in places that aren't going to be anywhere near a train station.

Wanna tell me again how those in Lake County wouldn't benefit? Or how only .01% of Lake County residents would use it? Light rail transit is meant to benefit communities EXACTLY like Clermont. Heck, people in Winter Park don't need it as much as those in Clermont do!!!

Get your facts straight. People aren't using Lynx because they don't work in downtown Orlando. The majority of the residents of Lake County work in Lake County.

Simply, flat out incorrect. As I said, Orlando has been expanding by leaps and bounds out in that direction and the traffic is rediculous coming in on 50.... I don't see how you can claim that Lake County wouldn't benefit...

Did you ever stop to think that a large amount of that traffic is "local traffic" that drive to the many businesses along route 50? As I said, most of the people out here moved here to escape an urban setting. They don't want urbanism being forced on them. That's why the county board overwhelmingly made sure that developer didn't put in the 30K homes he wanted to.

[sweetcityluvn]

The 408 and Daniel Webster Western Beltway (Toll 429) are doing a good job alleviating traffic for most of western metro Orlando. I am actually with annerk on this one. As a transportation planner (okay not yet, but I have my degree...lol), I must say it does not make sense to build light rail in very low density development. I do not live on the western side of Orlando, but from what I know and have seen, it is mostly sprawled out development, with pockets of services along SR 50. Lake country is where the Orlando "exurbs" are and is even less developed. To impliment light rail costs millions of dollars and high density development is needed to make good use of it. For example, you are not going to walk from your neighborhood five miles from SR 50 then take rail to a nearby store along the corridor. Of course not. Its easier to just drive from home to destination. Freeways are used for long distance travel. Low density development needs freeways first, then as development increases in density, then it "might" be economically sound for light rail. As for the OCEA toll system, it has done Orlando good in my opinion. Private tollroads bring in more cash, in order to fund quicker freeway development. Otherwise it would take decades to complete by state and federal funds, instead of years. Tolls are also an incentive to decongest traffic (on the freeway), because only those who want to use them will pay, keeping some off the route. This however can cause traffic on local arteries (such as SR 50), so in some cases has the opposite effect. The bottomline is even if there is demand, it is not economically sound unless it pays off (light rail in low density does not amount to the benefit of building a network in high density development).

[GABMER]

Originally Posted by Pete C

More people are moving here than are leaving.

Yup, that is the only expansion I see

[Pete C]

It sounds just like Tri-Rail in South Florida, and that is going bust as we speak. It's not a purpose-built rail system that stops in convenient areas even...they are using existing rail. Man, I just don't know about this. The fact that you MUST take a bus from any of these stops to work just seems like too much of a hassle. Why not just add more bus routes and create more expressways? I'm with sweetcityluvn and annerk on this one.

[Rhett_Butler]

Eh, nm.....

I think we lost sight of the thread topic.... More bus routes does NOT equal a "World Class City"....

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler

Eh, nm.....

I think we lost sight of the thread topic.... More bus routes does NOT equal a "World Class City"....

If the bus routes create a comprehensive mass transit system, then yes they do.

[sweetcityluvn]

naw...its just a means of decongesting a city...we definately got off topic...LOL!!!