Airlines Not Carrying Enough Fuel (cost, commercial, tank, strange)

[Jimrob1]

I flew yesterday on a Delta flight from Providence to Atlanta. The flight had problems with its schedule from the moment I arrived at the airport. When it did depart it ended up sitting on a taxiway for 20 minutes ,because only so many planes could land in Atlanta when it was due, so it was decided to let it sit on the taxiway in Providence, rather than waste fuel circling Atlanta. It circled Atlantas airport once it seemed and then the pilot said the flight was being diverted to South Carolina because it was low on fuel. This entire trip from Providence to Atlanta took some 7 hours on what is a 2 hour flight. My connection to the west coast was completely disrupted and I missed the flight ,and was rescheduled for the last flight that night. I had to do all the footwork, no one even told me I was rescheduled. Has anyone else found themselves on flights that are not carrying enough fuel to reach their destination and are diverted for this reason. I remember the news had this story on a few weeks ago. The story read some pilots were refusing the flight because they were not carrying enough spare fuel. Well now I can say it is going on and I was surprised they told us over the intercom we were low on fuel. Though I do admire the pilots honesty I don't think I am comfortable flying under these types of fuel conservation methods. I am wondering now if the new meaning of nonstop flights could mean an unscheduled landing for refueling. I think this is a serious issue and I sincerely hope it does not lead to a plane crash. Flying between cities carrying only the bare amount of fuel and little extra because of fuel prices ,is going to cause a crash.

[Jimrob1]

I probably should have posted this on the Travel Forum, but didn't notice there was one at the time I wrote this.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Jimrob1

I probably should have posted this on the Travel Forum, but didn't notice there was one at the time I wrote this.

You're fine Jim.

I never encoutered the problem you mentioned, except on the flight simulator I have.. I was low on fuel one time flying from Heathrow to Miami, but I managed to make it to my destination airport flying a Boeing 747-451, and landing in Miami beach.. not on the beach, but at the airport!

[studedude]

Correct me if I'm wrong Mike. Planes push away from the gate because on time departures are based on when they leave the gate not the ground. If you sit on the tarmac for an hour before you take off you have left on time. Sitting still uses fuel, circling uses fuel. If you only need 1/2 a tank to get to your destination, under normal conditions, save the weight and fuel. If you get to your destination and they're surprised you showed up and make you circle you can run low. At least the low fuel light came on and the gas station in SC was open.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by studedude

Correct me if I'm wrong Mike. Planes push away from the gate because on time departures are based on when they leave the gate not the ground. If you sit on the tarmac for an hour before you take off you have left on time. Sitting still uses fuel, circling uses fuel. If you only need 1/2 a tank to get to your destination, under normal conditions, save the weight and fuel. If you get to your destination and they're surprised you showed up and make you circle you can run low. At least the low fuel light came on and the gas station in SC was open.

That is correct StudeDude, departure time is based on the time the aircraft is pushed back from the gate. Delays of more than 30 minutes sitting on the tarmac awaiting take-offs are not very common in normal weather conditions, and in most cases, flight crews can make up for the time lost on the tarmac if they have favorable tail wind conditions at cruise altitudes, which will make a difference on flights that are over 2 hours long.

With the cost of jet fuel these days, flight crews, control towers, and regional control centers, are trying everything they can to save as much fuel as possible to avoid having 20 or 30 jetliners sitting on the tarmac awaiting take-offs, and wasting valuable jet fuel. Of course with weather conditions, they have no control over that, so such delays are inevitable, so they want ATC controllers to put priority on directing traffic that's approaching their control area so they can land, especially trans-oceanic flights that can sometime have enough fuel for a normal control region entry, pattern entry, approach and landing. Such flights usually have about 20-25% of their fuel capacity left in all of the tanks, which is still more than sufficient, but if they have to be in a holding pattern and circling for an hour, depending on the aircraft type, that 20-25% fuel capacity on a Boeing 747, or an Airbus A340, will definitely not be enough, so the regional control center, or the control tower will usually direct them to another airport in the region, or put them on priority for landing. In most cases, they'll never allow the fuel tanks to run below 10%. When they do, they'll definitely be running on fumes and they'll have to land the aircraft fast.

I like your analogy of the low fuel light and finding a gas station in SC!

[Jimrob1]

The flight I was on did not wait to take off because of other traffic. The PVD airport is small and it would be rare if ever to see a number of planes waiting to take off. Something with this particular flight was strange compared to other flights I have been on. The pilot told us as we sat on a taxiway for 20 minutes or so, that due to limited landings in ATL we were being delayed at PVD rather than circling ATL. The flight had already departed the gate some 45 minutes late. When we did take off and reach ATL 2 hours later, we circled for what seemed once and the pilot then notified us of our being diverted to Greenville. There were several aircraft all CRJ-200's I believe the aircraft model is called at Greenville being refueled, so this scenario may be common or not, I don't know. I have never been in this type of aircraft before nor have I ever been diverted on other larger aircraft. I fly some 15 times a year. I don't know the reasons for this flight problem but there obviously was a lack of fuel on this aircraft. The flight specs said this aircraft can fly some 2000 miles, PVD to ATL is barely 1000 air miles if that. Either or, or whatever the reasons, People would wonder about the airlines these days and who could blame them. I actually would like to take a break from flying this year, and maybe things will smooth out some for both the airlines and the passengers. Between reservations being changed over and over and flights arriving hours late or delayed constantly, I need a break.

[studedude]

A little off the subject Mike but why do you land and then are told the gate is not ready? Did they not know you were coming?

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by studedude

A little off the subject Mike but why do you land and then are told the gate is not ready? Did they not know you were coming?

The reasons for that can be as numerous as the reasons for delays and cancellations.

When a commercial airliner lands and exits the runway, ATC will hand control over to ground traffic control, from which the pilot or first officer will request taxi clearance to a gate. They'll give the pilots the designated gate to taxi to, which is designated before the aircraft lands.

In all the flights I've been on, I've never had an instance where the gate was not ready for the aircraft, but I can guess something like that would happen because of a gate change, because of either a malfunction with the equipment, or there's an aircraft parked at the gate, that's running late and hasn't pushed back.

[studedude]

I'm sure there is a good reason. I have been on several flights where they said "The gate is not ready" and it sounds silly.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Jimrob1

The flight I was on did not wait to take off because of other traffic. The PVD airport is small and it would be rare if ever to see a number of planes waiting to take off. Something with this particular flight was strange compared to other flights I have been on. The pilot told us as we sat on a taxiway for 20 minutes or so, that due to limited landings in ATL we were being delayed at PVD rather than circling ATL. The flight had already departed the gate some 45 minutes late. When we did take off and reach ATL 2 hours later, we circled for what seemed once and the pilot then notified us of our being diverted to Greenville. There were several aircraft all CRJ-200's I believe the aircraft model is called at Greenville being refueled, so this scenario may be common or not, I don't know. I have never been in this type of aircraft before nor have I ever been diverted on other larger aircraft. I fly some 15 times a year. I don't know the reasons for this flight problem but there obviously was a lack of fuel on this aircraft. The flight specs said this aircraft can fly some 2000 miles, PVD to ATL is barely 1000 air miles if that. Either or, or whatever the reasons, People would wonder about the airlines these days and who could blame them. I actually would like to take a break from flying this year, and maybe things will smooth out some for both the airlines and the passengers. Between reservations being changed over and over and flights arriving hours late or delayed constantly, I need a break.

The Bombardier (A Canadian company) CRJ 200 is a small regional jet, it's a smaller version of the MD-8X/DC-9.

Although I've never been in the situation you've been in, I can understand your frustration of having been on a flight that should have taken only 2 hours, but took 7 hours instead.

I was in Hawaii last week, and the return flight was delayed a little over 3 hours because of a part in the cabin communication system, that needed to be replaced on the Boeing 767-300-ER, so sitting at the gate for 3 extra hours was not exactly fun either.