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I imagine quite a few people aren't familiar with this but in 1993 the Lakota passed a resolution against the appropriation of Native religion by non-natives.
Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
WHEREAS we are the conveners of an ongoing series of comprehensive forums on the abuse and exploitation of Lakota spirituality; and
WHEREAS we represent the recognized traditional spiritual leaders, traditional elders, and grassroots advocates of the Lakota people; and WHEREAS for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious Lakota ceremonies and spiritual practices desecrated, mocked and abused by non-Indian "wannabes," hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled "New Age shamans" and their followers; and
This kind of nonsense is part of the reason I left "organized" paganism behind years ago. I was looking for faith and found the "Plastic Shamans" the Lakota elders refer to. Either that or it was groups of D&D players with ludicrous names and SCA costumes. Silver Ravenwolf? Seriously? Hell, I can call myself Mauve Platypusdonkey and be just as silly. These days if I see someone calling themselves a shaman I run for the hills as fast as I can.
Bleh. Maybe I'm just old and cynical but the fantasy reenacting of a medeival age that never was is a big turn off for me. People in cloaks and staves. If you want some real authenticity add a few boils and cover yourself in dung without bathing for a few months.
Ah yes, the good old cultural appropriation argument. I think it is silly because ultimately when you get right down to it they are doing the exact same thing with various aspects of the different other cultures that exist in the US. I remember pointing this out to a proponent of this idea in college and all he could say was essentially white people all have the same culture and appropriating it doesn't count since they are the wider culture.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 09-18-2012 at 11:13 AM..
Ah yes, the good old cultural appropriation argument. I think it is silly because ultimately when you get right down to it they are doing the exact same thing with various aspects of the different other cultures that exist in the US. I remember pointing this out to a proponent of this idea in college and all he could say was essentially white people all have the same culture and appropriating it doesn't count since they are the wider culture.
Well I don't agree with your associate's contention vis-a-vis white culture but I can certainly understand the Lakota wanting to put a hurting on fake medicine men charging people for sweat lodges and Sun Dances.
We have a rich history of European pre-Christian religions to pull from and celebrate - why do we need to append fakery unto them and claim them as ours?
Well I don't agree with your associate's contention vis-a-vis white culture but I can certainly understand the Lakota wanting to put a hurting on fake medicine men charging people for sweat lodges and Sun Dances.
We have a rich history of European pre-Christian religions to pull from and celebrate - why do we need to append fakery unto them and claim them as ours?
I don't think it is merely about charlatans, I think it goes deeper to reject all but a very narrow sharing of cultural traditions with outsiders. Mind you this isn't against only charlatans it is against academics, people who encourage non-native practitioners, people who sell certain types of pipes, etc and so forth even going so far as to try and control what religious practices people follow in the privacy of their own homes. It is basically about preserving an idea of cultural purity which is a suspect motive at best.
I don't practice anything Native American, but I still think it is a silly argument. It would be one thing if they were simply going against fraudsters, but in my experience with this it is about being absolutely possessive about ones culture which simply will never work in a society where various cultures are interacting, and it becomes even more silly when you consider that they are engaging in the same thing, in terms of altering and absorbing other cultures into their own.
Ah yes, the good old cultural appropriation argument. I think it is silly because ultimately when you get right down to it they are doing the exact same thing with various aspects of the different other cultures that exist in the US. I remember pointing this out to a proponent of this idea in college and all he could say was essentially white people all have the same culture and appropriating it doesn't count since they are the wider culture.
No, Christianity explicitly invites, compels, and very nearly requires, that all people on Earth 'appropriate' it. That is very different from the tradition of Lakota spirituality and virtually all other indigenous ethnic religions including the pre-Christian European ones.
I imagine quite a few people aren't familiar with this but in 1993 the Lakota passed a resolution against the appropriation of Native religion by non-natives.
Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
WHEREAS we are the conveners of an ongoing series of comprehensive forums on the abuse and exploitation of Lakota spirituality; and
WHEREAS we represent the recognized traditional spiritual leaders, traditional elders, and grassroots advocates of the Lakota people; and WHEREAS for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious Lakota ceremonies and spiritual practices desecrated, mocked and abused by non-Indian "wannabes," hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled "New Age shamans" and their followers; and
This kind of nonsense is part of the reason I left "organized" paganism behind years ago. I was looking for faith and found the "Plastic Shamans" the Lakota elders refer to. Either that or it was groups of D&D players with ludicrous names and SCA costumes. Silver Ravenwolf? Seriously? Hell, I can call myself Mauve Platypusdonkey and be just as silly. These days if I see someone calling themselves a shaman I run for the hills as fast as I can.
Bleh. Maybe I'm just old and cynical but the fantasy reenacting of a medeival age that never was is a big turn off for me. People in cloaks and staves. If you want some real authenticity add a few boils and cover yourself in dung without bathing for a few months.
First, the Lakota don't have to invite them to their own celebrations. Recognize their own. Nobody says they have to attend a gathering of SCA and other recreationists.
SCA and the sorts of fandom with which it shares many members are a community. Generally people don't care if someone thinks its silly. If its not for your don't participate. And to recreate with all the warts would mean the civil war recreationists should have to fast and sleep in the mud for a few days first, and they might be declared a public health hazard.
With all the ranting about disrespecting religions going on right now, I think its good to establish that each can believe what they want, and even borrow without permission as religions have done for milinia. And in the end its a personal choice. So those who don't like the newer pagan paths like to point out they are so 'new' as if it means they have less worth. Worth is determined by the individual who finds inspiration within them and nobody else. So if native tribes wish to complain they may, but if elements of their beliefs are borrowed, then someone found worth in them. Shouldn't this be a *good* thing?
And while I'm not sure why the bashing of SCA and fannish medieval recreations is here, I suspect its because fandom is a place where pagan faiths are not considered abnormal and thus more people come upon them in a favorable light. But there is no reason to bash those who enjoy dressing up and recreating the good parts of a time. Its their business. And its their choice of recreation. Just as people dress in Star Wars gear and Trek costumes and become a character for a weekend. Playing is a very important skill often forgotten by adults.
This statement seems just stuck in there to vent, and fine if its not for you, but its also fine if others LIKE it. I see no point to sports but for those who do, go for it. I think we all need less sniping and more live and let live.
As for authenticity, if you didn't bathe and used medieval methods of cleaning, the state would call you a health hazard... If you added some pesants on a pesant diet with kids, you'd get arrested for child abuse. There are some things best remembered and studied, but left out in the reviised middle ages.
First, the Lakota don't have to invite them to their own celebrations. Recognize their own. Nobody says they have to attend a gathering of SCA and other recreationists.
SCA and the sorts of fandom with which it shares many members are a community. Generally people don't care if someone thinks its silly. If its not for your don't participate. And to recreate with all the warts would mean the civil war recreationists should have to fast and sleep in the mud for a few days first, and they might be declared a public health hazard.
With all the ranting about disrespecting religions going on right now, I think its good to establish that each can believe what they want, and even borrow without permission as religions have done for milinia. And in the end its a personal choice. So those who don't like the newer pagan paths like to point out they are so 'new' as if it means they have less worth. Worth is determined by the individual who finds inspiration within them and nobody else. So if native tribes wish to complain they may, but if elements of their beliefs are borrowed, then someone found worth in them. Shouldn't this be a *good* thing?
And while I'm not sure why the bashing of SCA and fannish medieval recreations is here, I suspect its because fandom is a place where pagan faiths are not considered abnormal and thus more people come upon them in a favorable light. But there is no reason to bash those who enjoy dressing up and recreating the good parts of a time. Its their business. And its their choice of recreation. Just as people dress in Star Wars gear and Trek costumes and become a character for a weekend. Playing is a very important skill often forgotten by adults.
This statement seems just stuck in there to vent, and fine if its not for you, but its also fine if others LIKE it. I see no point to sports but for those who do, go for it. I think we all need less sniping and more live and let live.
As for authenticity, if you didn't bathe and used medieval methods of cleaning, the state would call you a health hazard... If you added some pesants on a pesant diet with kids, you'd get arrested for child abuse. There are some things best remembered and studied, but left out in the reviised middle ages.
My post was mostly facetious which should have been evidenced by the . I need to remind myself that the internets are full of self-righteous twits who get offended by the wind blowing. If you can't laugh at yourself first then I suggest you climb down from your moral high horse and buy a sense of humor.
And you obviously miss the entire point behind the Lakota resolution.
For the record I tend to go to rituals in a cloak with a sword and staff so I'm mocking myself as well.
Bleh. Maybe I'm just old and cynical but the fantasy reenacting of a medeival age that never was is a big turn off for me. People in cloaks and staves. If you want some real authenticity add a few boils and cover yourself in dung without bathing for a few months.
I find that kind of judgemental, honestly -- if you're really looking for 'real authenticity', then the SCA is one of the more reliable places to look. We're not all 'cloaks and staves', either -- some of us have hand-made our armor using period methods (and some have even hand-forged their own swords and daggers). If you ask nicely, our heralds will even help you blazon your family crest.
As to the Lakota decree -- though I agree with the idea, the tone seems overly militaristic (but then, I'm a pacificst, so I guess that's a given ). The voice behind it, though, carries a very sound message: it's inappropriate (not to mention offensive) to just 'abduct' someone's culture without understanding the traditions and history behind it.
I'm a bit surprised at that as I can recall a post by someone to the effect that he was irritated by people who weren't Lakotah or whatever appropriating their ceremonies when in fact they weren't entitled.
I can take it seriously meant just as Jews might if there were a bunch of Goys adopting a half -understood calendar of ceremonies and electing a Rabbi who can't even read hebrew, let alone having semicha, and just treating Judaism as a sort of week -end hobby.
So, yes, I took the declaration as possibly being quite seriously intended.
I'm a bit surprised at that as I can recall a post by someone to the effect that he was irritated by people who weren't Lakotah or whatever appropriating their ceremonies when in fact they weren't entitled.
I can take it seriously meant just as Jews might if there were a bunch of Goys adopting a half -understood calendar of ceremonies and electing a Rabbi who can't even read hebrew and just treating Judaism as a sort of week -end hobby.
So, yes, I took the declaration as possibly being quite seriously intended.
The declaration was quite serious, the Lakota have gone to court to preserve the integrity of their religious beliefs and have banned non-natives from attending Sun Dances.
The rest of my post was pretty tongue in cheek. If anyone took Mauve Platypusduck seriously then they're pompous blowhards who need to unknot their knickers.
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). The voice behind it, though, carries a very sound message: it's inappropriate (not to mention offensive) to just 'abduct' someone's culture without understanding the traditions and history behind it.
