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Old 08-11-2007, 01:13 PM
 
833 posts, read 4,369,446 times
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Oh my god. I think someone needs to start a spanking thread.
Back to the original poster's question of teaching proper manners in public...
it's a process with kids. Telling a child one time on one occassion is not going to change behavior. It takes many times, over many years to teach appropriate, proper behavior. And hopefully, by the time they fly away when they are 18, they are well-adjusted, well-respected and have respect for others around them.
One thing we do with our two boys if they act out in a restaurant...
we take the offender to the car. If I am enjoying my meal with my older son, and my younger son is too loud, too squirmy, or just being obnoxious, we give him one warning to change his behavior. If he continues the bad behavior, one of us takes him out to the car and straps him into his car seat for three minutes for a time out. He's not allowed to talk or the time out starts over. The parent who takes him to the car sits in the drivers seats and just waits. Everyone just chills out and the offender gets the message. They come back into the restaurant and my son behaves appropriately. We've never had to discipline him more than once in one outing with that technique. I'm not saying it will work for everyone...I'm just saying it works for us and it lets other patrons around us enjoy their meal without a three year old bothering them. Everyone enjoys going out to eat. If a child is too loud or being obnoxious, the parent(s) should physically take them out of the restaurant if they can't quiet the child down within a minute's time.

 
Old 08-11-2007, 01:16 PM
 
442 posts, read 1,902,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
I agree. But id also like to point out that in the politically correct climate we live in alot of parents dont spank their children in public places because of the trouble they will get in when somebody reports them for it. And the kids know this. Even I, who beleives in spanking (it never hurt me) am vary wary of doing it in public because of nosey busybodies.
Take the child out of the restaurant to the car and wear his hiney out. Bring him back in to the restaurant, set his butt down, and everyone will be able to enjoy their meal. It only takes one time.
 
Old 08-11-2007, 01:21 PM
 
442 posts, read 1,902,464 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeg26 View Post
Once in a grocery store a little monster sitting in the cart behind me began spitting. Mom did nothing. My daughter followed the example and began spitting from the seat in my cart. I explained it was discusting and spread yucky germs and I warned her firmly 2-3 times before I took her from the cart and gave her a swat. She of course started crying and crying. An older woman observing the whole thing approached. I'm thinking "Oh, great, I'm going to get a lecture on hitting your child and the damage it does."
The woman said loud enough for the other mom to hear "It is so nice to see a parent actually taking responsibility for their childrens behavior. Good job!"
It felt great! If we don't punish our kids and teach them the proper way to behave, who will?
There is a difference between spanking and abusing your kids.
Good for you! We need more parents like you. I agee, spanking is not the same as abusing. The spanking should never be intended to hurt or bruise a child, it's meant to show who is the boss... and it's not the child. The Bible says that foolishness is bound up the heart of a child, but the rod will drive it far away from him. We need to raise our children to be respectul of others so that when they are teens and adults, they will have respect for other's privacy and possessions. You are a GREAT parent! Thanks for taking responsibility for your child.
 
Old 08-11-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Chicago 'burbs'
1,022 posts, read 2,977,987 times
Reputation: 719
Response to Charles Wallace's questions.....


Is it ever "proper" to be touching a childs private parts unless for a medical reason (child has a rash)? NO.

Do YOU think it would be appropriate to hit a baby? We were talking a spanking a child to discipline, weren't we? It would never be appropriate to hit a baby in any way, shape or form. Anyone who thinks it's ok is plain nuts and needs help.

As far as teenagers go - that is why you discipline and teach them when they are younger, so they know how to act and are respectful by the time they are teenagers. If not you have pleanty of things that you can take away from them that would be a much better punishment than a spanking on the behind. Like phones, t.v, car keys, the party or dance that weekend, etc. To be completely honest with you, though, I remember testing my father BIG time when I was about 15 or 16 years old. I said something really disrespectful to him and YES, he smacked me. Believe me, he felt bad, but I deserved it and I have never talked to my father disrespectfully since. If I would have hit him back, I would have been knocked to the floor and lost every privelage I had for the rest of my teenage years! And I would have DESERVED IT!!

What ever happened to children respecting their parents?

I know you don't agree with me, and I'm not asking you to. You do what works for you and your kids. What I'm doing with my kids is WORKING. They are far from perfect but they are not being disrespectful to the people around them, ruining anyones dining or shopping experience, destroying public (or private) property, disrupting the classroom or cafeteria, or fighting on the playground.

There is an obvious difference between spanking as a form of discipline and BEATING your children. If you don't understand that difference you should get some more books or seek help understanding this concept. Spanking as a form of discipline has been effective for many, many, many years. Ask your parents or Grandparents. Look at the kids now days compaired to when you were a kid. Would you have acted like that? Probably not. Why? Because you would have gotten spanked for it!

Last edited by treeg26; 08-11-2007 at 02:15 PM..
 
Old 08-11-2007, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Chicago 'burbs'
1,022 posts, read 2,977,987 times
Reputation: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by SashaBlue View Post
Good for you! We need more parents like you. I agee, spanking is not the same as abusing. The spanking should never be intended to hurt or bruise a child, it's meant to show who is the boss... and it's not the child. The Bible says that foolishness is bound up the heart of a child, but the rod will drive it far away from him. We need to raise our children to be respectul of others so that when they are teens and adults, they will have respect for other's privacy and possessions. You are a GREAT parent! Thanks for taking responsibility for your child.

Thank you!
 
Old 08-11-2007, 05:47 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,771,707 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeg26 View Post

Do YOU think it would be appropriate to hit a baby? We were talking a spanking a child to discipline, weren't we? It would never be appropriate to hit a baby in any way, shape or form. Anyone who thinks it's ok is plain nuts and needs help.
Okay, so at what point does a baby stop being a baby? Eighteen months? Two years? Is it okay to hit a child when she turns two, but not the day before she's two? What if she does something really bad the day before she turns two?
Quote:

As far as teenagers go - that is why you discipline and teach them when they are younger, so they know how to act and are respectful by the time they are teenagers. If not you have pleanty of things that you can take away from them that would be a much better punishment than a spanking on the behind. Like phones, t.v, car keys, the party or dance that weekend, etc.
Yeah, but don't you think that the spanking would teach them even more effectively? After all, teenagers can be very rebellious. Also, what if they don't care if you take things away, or you've taken things away already and have nothing more to take?

Is it okay to hit your teenage daughter or son? Where do you hit hjm or her? Is the face appropriate? What about the stomach? Do you stop when they turn eighteen or twenty-one? If they hit you back and you hit them back and they hit you, and so on, where does it stop? Should it? Do you have the right to call the police and have them brought in on assault charges?
Quote:

There is an obvious difference between spanking as a form of discipline and BEATING your children.

If you don't understand that difference you should get some more books or seek help understanding this concept. Spanking as a form of discipline has been effective for many, many, many years. Ask your parents or Grandparents. Look at the kids now days compaired to when you were a kid. Would you have acted like that? Probably not. Why? Because you would have gotten spanked for it!
I am trying to understand where the line lies for you. Rather than consult a book - and I have read several on the issue, one of which (as I mentioned) suggested striking an eighteen month-old baby with a willow rod. Where's the line between spanking and beating?

So far, you're not really clarifying that for me much. You're saying it's appropriate to hit your child so hard you leave a mark as long as it doesn't last, and appropriate to hit a child but not a baby (although you don't tell me yet where that line is between one and another) and not to hit the baby's private parts. Apparently any other part (face, stomach, hands, rear end) is appropriate. If your teenager hits you, you're telling me it's appropriate to hit back and keep doing it.

As far as things being better in the good old days, I actually don't see that, and I've been around long enough to see at least some of those theoretical good old days. Children in every era have been disparaged as being disrespectful compared to children from previous ones, even as far back as ancient Greece, for God's sake. What I would like to know is this: How are crime statistics for youth now as opposed to the 60s and 70s, a generation or so ago? Spanking was the norm back then, so by your logic, crime stats should be quite low.

Here is a list of some countries who give children the same protection against assault that they give adults -- unlike the United States, where for instance, you could legally have arrested for assault and battery someone who struck you, but you could turn around and legally do that to your one-day-old child. Theoretically, the youth crime rates in these countries should have skyrocketed since the spanking ban. Have they?

1979 Sweden
1983 Finland
1987 Norway
1989 Austria
1994 Cyprus
1997 Denmark
1998 Latvia
2000 Germany
2000 Bulgaria
2003 Iceland
2004 Romania
2004 Ukraine
2005 Hungary
2006 Greece
2007 Netherlands
2007 New Zealand

How about in schools which allow corporal punishment? Is it okay for the school, acting in loco parentis, to strike a misbehaving child with a hand or a paddle? Your state law might allow that. Theoretically, those states should have fewer discipline problems and better education than nonspanking states. Is that the case?

I'm sure willing to listen if you're willing to prove your case beyond general statements about the good old days or clarify your points for me. As far as children having respect for their parents, I absolutely believe that this is crucial -- but I believe children learn how to treat others respectfully by being respectfully treated.
 
Old 08-11-2007, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Chicago 'burbs'
1,022 posts, read 2,977,987 times
Reputation: 719
You have got to be kidding me.

If you need more information on when discipline becomes abuse you may want to contact your local Department of Children and Family Services office.

I do not need to explain my actions to you. I think I was pretty clear in my last 2 posts.

Spanking works. Period. There are pleanty of parents out there that agree and use this form of discipline themselves.

We are all free to have our own opinions.

Last edited by treeg26; 08-11-2007 at 07:36 PM..
 
Old 08-11-2007, 10:35 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,771,707 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeg26 View Post
You have got to be kidding me.

If you need more information on when discipline becomes abuse you may want to contact your local Department of Children and Family Services office.

I do not need to explain my actions to you. I think I was pretty clear in my last 2 posts.

Spanking works. Period. There are pleanty of parents out there that agree and use this form of discipline themselves.

We are all free to have our own opinions.
It is hard to differentiate spanking from abuse, isn't it? It is hard to know where that line is between what's appropriate and what's not.

That's why, ethically speaking, it's probably too slippery a slope to step on in the first place.
 
Old 08-12-2007, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Venice, Fl
1,497 posts, read 3,024,684 times
Reputation: 1384
I agree with OP 100%. My wife and I do not have children, we don't want children and don't feel we should have to put up with children that cannot behave in public. I can honestly say that I Can't blame the children. Many of you are correct, kids will be kids and we were all children at one point. I place blame on the parents, too mant parents are AFK parents letting the kids do what ever they do so the parents can enjoy some quiet time . So the parents let the kids run amuck so they can enjoy a glass of wine and dinner together, and in doing so let the kids ruin dinner for everyone else close by. Parents need to take responsibility for their rugrats. How many times in the grocery store do we see kids running all over and the parent no where to be found ? How many times at the mall are kids unattended to do what ever so the parent can shop in peace. It is not my fault people had children but don't have the know how to deal with them, why should I have to listen to a kid having a tantrum so mom can have a minute to herself ? Bottom line, many parents never should have kids ! For parents to say " we have a right to go out also" is correct, and as adults that don't have children we also have a right not to have to listen to kids that can't behave. I have been around kids that are so well behaved it amazes me but more often than not I wonder why did the parents even bring that kid out of the house. I agree with many posts on here, you should need parenting class and a license to have kids. And for the lady condoning drinking wine at lunch while she has the kids, you have to be kidding me, any alcohol is too much alcohol when you are taking care of kids. That is like saying I only took a few hits off the joint before the kids got in the pool, come on now. Seems like a double standard when parents say " I won't spank my child" but they feel it's ok to have a drink or 2 just to take the edge off now and then and then buckle up the kids we are going now. LOL makes no sense to me.
 
Old 08-12-2007, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago 'burbs'
1,022 posts, read 2,977,987 times
Reputation: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
It is hard to differentiate spanking from abuse, isn't it? It is hard to know where that line is between what's appropriate and what's not.

That's why, ethically speaking, it's probably too slippery a slope to step on in the first place.
Well, I believe the slope is not so slippery when you are using common sense.
We just won't agree on this one.
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