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Oh, mind you - nowadays even a long time friend and I would say, even family (such as the aunt of the child etc) does not feel comfortable scolding or in other ways dealing with a child other than theirs.
Everyone is polite, reserved and minding STRICTLY their own child.
Everybody thinks this is a great thing but in reality, it spells social disaster. It means the complete destruction of a healthy community spirit that used to benefit everyone - children, parents, grandparents and friends alike.
In stark contrast to the way I grew up, I always sense an atmosphere of tacit hostility, competitiveness, insecurity and resentment when it comes to the way people (particularly parents) perceive other people's children. Of course, it's all covered by politeness, civility and smiles (hypocritical smiles) but my 6th sense knows better.
My mother always used to make fun of the newspaper rubric called "Ours is the cutest". It was an innocent, small box in the newspaper where people would just send a photo of their kid and the newspaper would publish 5-10 photos every week. I guess they had nothing else to fill the paper with. It was just a little trivial nothing and that was the extent of parental "competitiveness" in that society, at that time.
All taken very, very lightly.
Otherwise everyone knew it was silly to think that "yours is the cutest" or anything "-est". Your kid was just your kid (part of life) and you loved him and you wanted him to do well in school - but the most important thing was for him to behave, to have good character and be able to play with friends in healthy ways. End of story.
And yes, if there were other kids around getting into a "situation", whatever that was, you as a community member had the right to intervene, correct another person's child and tell the parent.
The parent would virtually ALWAYS side with the reporting adult in the eyes of the child, even if the adult in question may have been wrong (which they rarely were).
Otherwise, there were no catty, hypocritical smiles covering mountains of parental insecurity and anxiety regarding whose is prettiest, whose learned to read first, whose is writing his name better, whose is participating in most organized c**p, whose stands the highest chance of becoming a Wall Street CEO.
Having known a dramatically different child rearing climate, I sometimes wonder how come there is any parent left in this society who is NOT clinically depressed.
Then how could we even begin to expect to have a community where people just naturally watch out for each other, when subconsciously, we have come to a point where we'd rather see others and their offspring ...sort of...drop dead, if possible!
Thoroughly enjoyed reading that. You know, the group I dropped, I dropped because I got tired of them trying to compare my daughter's height to their toddler's. I would say, no need to measure. My daughter is taller because she is in the 95% and not all kids can be there.
Oh, mind you - nowadays even a long time friend and I would say, even family (such as the aunt of the child etc) does not feel comfortable scolding or in other ways dealing with a child other than theirs.
Everyone is polite, reserved and minding STRICTLY their own child.
Everybody thinks this is a great thing but in reality, it spells social disaster. It means the complete destruction of a healthy community spirit that used to benefit everyone - children, parents, grandparents and friends alike.
In stark contrast to the way I grew up, I always sense an atmosphere of tacit hostility, competitiveness, insecurity and resentment when it comes to the way people (particularly parents) perceive other people's children. Of course, it's all covered by politeness, civility and smiles (hypocritical smiles) but my 6th sense knows better.
My mother always used to make fun of the newspaper rubric called "Ours is the cutest". It was an innocent, small box in the newspaper where people would just send a photo of their kid and the newspaper would publish 5-10 photos every week. I guess they had nothing else to fill the paper with. It was just a little trivial nothing and that was the extent of parental "competitiveness" in that society, at that time.
All taken very, very lightly.
Otherwise everyone knew it was silly to think that "yours is the cutest" or anything "-est". Your kid was just your kid (part of life) and you loved him and you wanted him to do well in school - but the most important thing was for him to behave, to have good character and be able to play with friends in healthy ways. End of story.
And yes, if there were other kids around getting into a "situation", whatever that was, you as a community member had the right to intervene, correct another person's child and tell the parent.
The parent would virtually ALWAYS side with the reporting adult in the eyes of the child, even if the adult in question may have been wrong (which they rarely were).
Otherwise, there were no catty, hypocritical smiles covering mountains of parental insecurity and anxiety regarding whose is prettiest, whose learned to read first, whose is writing his name better, whose is participating in most organized c**p, whose stands the highest chance of becoming a Wall Street CEO.
Having known a dramatically different child rearing climate, I sometimes wonder how come there is any parent left in this society who is NOT clinically depressed.
Then how could we even begin to expect to have a community where people just naturally watch out for each other, when subconsciously, we have come to a point where we'd rather see others and their offspring ...sort of...drop dead, if possible!
I understand what you are talking about. I don't think it's at all helpful to blame individual parents though. This is a problem that is much bigger then the individual.
The US is a society that values independence from a very early age at the expense of interdependence. We are also a very mobile society. Families relocate for jobs and no longer have the support of their extended families being nearby. It not only changes things for families, it changes things for entire communities. When I was little we knew every single person on our block and knew them well. Now I know a few people on my block and only know a couple of them very well.
I read an interesting book recently called, "Hold Onto Your Kids" It talks a lot about our rapidly changing society and how it has effected kids (and parents and communities as a whole). I don't think you'll agree with everything the author has to say but I do think you'll find the more sociological aspects of the book to be interesting.
I understand what you are talking about. I don't think it's at all helpful to blame individual parents though. This is a problem that is much bigger then the individual.
The US is a society that values independence from a very early age at the expense of interdependence. We are also a very mobile society. Families relocate for jobs and no longer have the support of their extended families being nearby. It not only changes things for families, it changes things for entire communities. When I was little we knew every single person on our block and knew them well. Now I know a few people on my block and only know a couple of them very well.
I read an interesting book recently called, "Hold Onto Your Kids" It talks a lot about our rapidly changing society and how it has effected kids (and parents and communities as a whole). I don't think you'll agree with everything the author has to say but I do think you'll find the more sociological aspects of the book to be interesting.
I once read a book about people in poverty and found most of it to be accurate for my childhood. According to the book, this idea of independence, or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a very middle class idea. It discusses how interdependence is practiced amongst the lower classes and the very rich, not the working rich. I lived in a poor US town and we had to rely on other people when we were in trouble, mainly family but also neighbors at least 4 streets away. One reason my family was usually in a good position was because we had 4 car mechanics. But that was how it was, you didn't burn bridges and you didn't fight over petty things with your neighbors. Money was not part of our resources, people were.
Unfortunately, during my teenage years the community broke down. That is another story that involves drugs.
I understand what you are talking about. I don't think it's at all helpful to blame individual parents though. This is a problem that is much bigger then the individual.
Oh, I completely agree!!! Certainly not a problem that can be reduced to "bad people". It is a structural problem before being an individual problem.
You are 100% right.
It certainly is all linked to the economy, first and foremost; and ultimately, to some majorly fat cats hovering over the entire Earth and WANTING the masses to be mobile, unattached, with minimum support systems, insecure and competitive-until-their-brains-explode. This way the "global rulers" can benefit to the max.
I am a professional conspiracy theorist and I sincerely believe that just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
But then again, most people get caught in the game and for an average Joe (most of us) it is very hard to just opt out. Yet, being aware of what is going on remains a valuable tool of resistance.
Awareness can make a difference in day-to-day decisions.
I once read a book about people in poverty and found most of it to be accurate for my childhood. According to the book, this idea of independence, or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a very middle class idea. It discusses how interdependence is practiced amongst the lower classes and the very rich, not the working rich. I lived in a poor US town and we had to rely on other people when we were in trouble, mainly family but also neighbors at least 4 streets away. One reason my family was usually in a good position was because we had 4 car mechanics. But that was how it was, you didn't burn bridges and you didn't fight over petty things with your neighbors. Money was not part of our resources, people were.
Again, 100% true. The lower-classes or the very upper classes are the ones who get to know the advantages of interdependence...the rest, not so much. At least not in a modern, mobile and competitive society like the US.
And you said you came out with no "advantages" compared to others who didn't enjoy the kind of childhood you did. Looks like your poor US town parents letting you play on your own all the time didn't damage you all that horribly.
You might want to follow on what the "hovered over" generations will be able to retain from a book.
Again, 100% true. The lower-classes or the very upper classes are the ones who get to know the advantages of interdependence...the rest, not so much. At least not in a modern, mobile and competitive society like the US.
And you said you came out with no "advantages" compared to others who didn't enjoy the kind of childhood you did. Looks like your poor US town parents letting you play on your own all the time didn't damage you all that horribly.
You might want to follow on what the "hovered over" generations will be able to retain from a book.
Again, not many were as fortunate as me. The "good" ones left the city because of what was happening but many stayed behind. The kids that I decided to NEVER be friends with in elementary, where the same kids who ended up causing problems with drugs.
Being unsupervised and allowed to play with those kids is what REALLY messed me up. They did stuff that nobody would believe and nobody would bring up to their parents. That is why I ended up with zero friends at about 4th grade. I decided that I was just a weirdo but in fact, many of the things that people claimed were "wrong" ended up being good characteristics to have as an adult.
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It certainly is all linked to the economy, first and foremost; and ultimately, to some majorly fat cats hovering over the entire Earth and WANTING the masses to be mobile, unattached, with minimum support systems, insecure and competitive-until-their-brains-explode. This way the "global rulers" can benefit to the max.
I am a professional conspiracy theorist and I sincerely believe that just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
I share your thinking. One reason, is my husband, who is also from Eastern Europe. He opened my eyes. For example, the drugs that pretty much sealed my hometown's fate. It started because middle class kids need to do drugs and buy drugs. We had no police force so our town was perfect. Complete strangers started moving in. Don't get me wrong, we had recreational drugs but never was our city an interest to middle class people.
But if us poor kids were caught driving in the next town, we would be pulled over, told to go back home even though we did nothing wrong. It was so hypocritical. Now as an adult and accepting that the US government allows drugs to be a part of our daily life, I am under the impression that it is in their interest, some entity, to have destroyed communities.
No, Syracusa, I made it out for one reason: My mom loved me unconditionally and I always knew I had her love no matter what I did wrong. She was the only one but she had to work two jobs. This is why when people ask me, is my daughter going to dislike me when she is older because I worked? I always respond, "Not if you love her unconditionally."
I think that is the main problem with middle class parenting, love is conditional.
"I am liked only if I have this."
"You are liked when you are successful at this."
"Let me see what the book says a 6 month old should do....yup, you are on target"
"Let me see what the book says a 6 month old should do....nope, you are not on target. I must be doing something wrong."
I agree wholeheartedly that kids are overparented and protected these days and a lot of parents realize it but have trouble working against it.
I live in a working class neighborhood and there are lots of kids out playing in the street (yes the street, and they've all learned how to deal with traffic), riding bikes, playing ball, just hanging out. While we need more space we are hesitant to move because it is actually so unusual. As someone mentioned, so many subdivisions look like dead zones. Yards full of expensive pools and playsets and not a child to be seen anywhere. My friends who live in those streets envy our community here.
Kids need unstructured, relatively unsupervised play and not only with kids hand picked by their parents and identical ages. It's how they learn to deal with conflict, friendships and how to interact with very different people. Outside the kids are a variety of ages, the small kids learn from the older kids and the older ones learn responsibility by keeping an eye out for the younger ones. It's a mini society that allows kids to grow and experiment before they get out in the "real world" and I am incredibly grateful that they have that opportunity. It's allowing them to be very comfortable in their own skins and confident in how they deal with their peers. At any summer camp or classroom the supervisors always mention how quickly they are able to fit in and adapt and form new friendships.
As a kid in the '70's-'80's I took part in activities but my best childhood memories will always be of playing outside till dark. Travelling around neighborhoods, meeting other kids, building "forts". We had elaborate games and social structures and parents never got involved unless there was a real fight. My kids can't believe we walked to school on our own, or that we came home for lunch, or that we had a couple of recesses a day. They are envious.
As to the argument that it is more dangerous now - at 8 my best friends little brother was murdered by a stranger. Yes it was shocking, yes it was scary and sad. It was also a one-off. Within a few days, kids were out playing just as before and nothing ever happened to anyone again.
Here are some videos. I know, no need for professionals to study play. I like this quote:
"Rough and tumble play is vital. It allows children to be physical without thinking that they are being naughty."
What has always bothered me is how some parents assume that their child will hurt my child if they try to hug her. What a weird message to send to their child, and mine.
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You know, the group I dropped, I dropped because I got tired of them trying to compare my daughter's height to their toddler's. I would say, no need to measure. My daughter is taller because she is in the 95% and not all kids can be there.
and I sincerely believe that just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they are not out to get you. 
