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Old 09-30-2010, 07:54 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,090 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
None of this has anything to do with what I posted. I was asking if you (everybody you) made any special prep with them knowing they could go and drink at a younger age, if your main deterrent up till now was that you can't drink until you're 21. That's it. You were the one that kept pushing the point, because you didn't understand what I was asking, and you still think I have an agenda. I don't.

I'm not sure what you found so offensive about my post, but you've taken it way too seriously. Why are you so upset that I've met American kids in bars that are going a bit crazy with their new freedom? I've met plenty of them who've just turned 21, that do the same thing here. And Europeans, and Australians, who do the same thing in their own countries. I'm not speaking badly about them, just recounting my experiences.

This topic was about how we educate our children about alcohol, and I was asking a question pertaining to that topic. There's nothing sinister about it.
Please quit analyzing me. I didn't think you had an agenda; I didn't understand you point. Surely, every post on CD has some point.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Australia
1,489 posts, read 1,740,139 times
Reputation: 1646
As my daughter gets older, there is more chance that she will find herself in situations where there is alcohol.

We have forbidden her to drink alcohol.

We have told her that when she is older we will allow the occasional glass of wine, champagne and so on at family events where her parents are present.

We have told her is that if she is in a situation where she is uncomfortable, she can call us any time, anywhere and we will come and take her home. In her phone call or text she will tell us where and how. For example she will watch for and come out and get in the car or please come in and get her. We have told her that she will never be punished for calling us. Ever. We have also told her that if she has punishment coming say she had been drinking, that we will not even discuss it until the next day. That is to give us as parents time to cool and time for her to calm down too. We have told her that when do the pick up, that we will not be arguing or acusing her or her friends. Just here is the ride lets go. We do not not want to embarass her. We do want her to call rather than stay in an unsafe situation.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:45 PM
 
5,983 posts, read 2,989,612 times
Reputation: 7225
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
I backpacked through Europe before I was 21. I'd never had a drink. Wasn't something I did for a variety of reasons. The group of friends I went with weren't drinkers. I had my first glass of wine in Italy. None of us went wild and thought "Oh, wow. We can booze it up since our parents aren't here." But we found out, rather quickly, that a loaf of bread, a piece of cheese and a bottle of wine made for a cheap meal. I left home with certain values and they didn't suddenly change because I was in a foreign country.

When I sent my own kids off to explore the world they got the same lectures I'd gotten from my parents about keeping safe, spending money, not getting into trouble. None of them left as drinkers and none of them came home suddenly hitting the booze.

Part of this may be that we're all kind of crunchy granola health food types and too much booze is just not good for your liver. San Peligrino. Coke with lemon. There's all kinds of things to substitute overseas. But the kids who want to drink are going to drink whether they're in Malibu or Dayton or Lucerne.
Good post. So if you're pretty well grounded overall, it's unlikely you're going to go off the rails because you suddenly can, without (legal, anyway) repercussions. I guess that's common sense really. I think that's an important thing to instill in our children, that the ramifications of drinking are far more than legal. Although don't get me wrong, I'm not against drinking at all. I think it's an important life skill!

And by the way DewDrop, San Pellegrino and coke with lemon are my favorite beverages. (Actually it used to be single malt scotch, but not so much these days!).
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,621 posts, read 5,190,849 times
Reputation: 3605
Quote:
Originally Posted by strawflower View Post
You're comparing alcoholism to drinking in moderation, which are two very different things.
Exactly. And the focus should be on teaching the difference between the two to kids. And in teaching them how to drink responsibly if they do choose to do so (whether its at 17 or 27). Its like everything else - teaching responsible behavior earlier on will likely lead to more responsible behaviors later in life.
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:42 AM
 
1 posts, read 582 times
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my 17 years old son had a party last night,he invited aprox.30 peoples,party start at 7pm and around 8:45pm I when to the first floor and see an unvelilable drunk faces and pass out kids aproximately 60 peoples,,I turn the music off and yelling them saying the party is over, unfortunately mostly girls had to way the parents to pick them up and mostly young people jump over the fence and I guess bringing some beer,and possible drugs, when I take em out ,police came and found a 15 year old drunk in the corner of my home ,that saying she was drinking inside my home,first,my son never invite her and someone saw her inside with some guy drink like crazy,so many young guys left,but the ones stay in my home had to way to their parents,well police came into my home and saw the guys 16 and 17 years old some signs that they had drinking beer and they said my home was smeelling marihuana,,I'm the parent in wich I will take the responsability because ,first,I let my son have a party ,second I was aware that young girls and boys was in my home under my supervision, but what about those kids that jump over my fence,and came around the house? that might bring the beer and the join? that am still take responsability of this actions, remember that pass only 2 hours and then I see that was pass over my control and I shut the music off and take all the guys out,mostly kids saying that more then 60 % of the guys came drunk,I get arrested last night and I going to get charges for this,am not sure how is the charges ,am real mad with my son and am sure I will get in trouble for this ,but wasn't under my control, I guess,I trust so much to my son,but now am very dessapointment,PLEASE I NEED AN ADVICE ,WHAT TO DO NOW,DO I HAVE TO FIND A CRIMINAL LAWYER? POLICE SAY THIS IS A CRIMINAL CHARGE OF 4 DEGREE TO ME
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:10 AM
 
10,152 posts, read 11,574,453 times
Reputation: 9242
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsot2003 View Post
my 17 years old son had a party last night,he invited aprox.30 peoples,party start at 7pm and around 8:45pm I when to the first floor and see an unvelilable drunk faces and pass out kids aproximately 60 peoples,,I turn the music off and yelling them saying the party is over, unfortunately mostly girls had to way the parents to pick them up and mostly young people jump over the fence and I guess bringing some beer,and possible drugs, when I take em out ,police came and found a 15 year old drunk in the corner of my home ,that saying she was drinking inside my home,first,my son never invite her and someone saw her inside with some guy drink like crazy,so many young guys left,but the ones stay in my home had to way to their parents,well police came into my home and saw the guys 16 and 17 years old some signs that they had drinking beer and they said my home was smeelling marihuana,,I'm the parent in wich I will take the responsability because ,first,I let my son have a party ,second I was aware that young girls and boys was in my home under my supervision, but what about those kids that jump over my fence,and came around the house? that might bring the beer and the join? that am still take responsability of this actions, remember that pass only 2 hours and then I see that was pass over my control and I shut the music off and take all the guys out,mostly kids saying that more then 60 % of the guys came drunk,I get arrested last night and I going to get charges for this,am not sure how is the charges ,am real mad with my son and am sure I will get in trouble for this ,but wasn't under my control, I guess,I trust so much to my son,but now am very dessapointment,PLEASE I NEED AN ADVICE ,WHAT TO DO NOW,DO I HAVE TO FIND A CRIMINAL LAWYER? POLICE SAY THIS IS A CRIMINAL CHARGE OF 4 DEGREE TO ME
Your house, your responsibility. When you saw what was going on why didn't you call the police?
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: The brown house on the cul de sac
2,081 posts, read 2,750,403 times
Reputation: 9269
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsot2003 View Post
I get arrested last night and I going to get charges for this,am not sure how is the charges ,am real mad with my son and am sure I will get in trouble for this ,but wasn't under my control, I guess,I trust so much to my son,but now am very dessapointment,PLEASE I NEED AN ADVICE ,WHAT TO DO NOW,DO I HAVE TO FIND A CRIMINAL LAWYER? POLICE SAY THIS IS A CRIMINAL CHARGE OF 4 DEGREE TO ME
You got arrested last night and you don't know the charges? Hmmm...yeah ok...I believe you.
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Minnesota, USA
7,545 posts, read 8,321,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb03 View Post
Where do you stand on teenagers and alcohol?

Do you flat out (attempt to) forbid it? Do you think that teenagers and alcohol should absolutely never happen under any circumstances?

Do you try to make some sort of 'compromise'? Or avoid the issue?

My 16 year old daughter had two alcohol related issues (the consequences of which could have potentially been more serious than they were) as a 15 year old - my attitude to that was 15 years old plus alcohol plus unsupervised - no way.

But I didn't want to make alcohol taboo, I didn't want her to be secretive (that just feels like something that can result in dangerous situations too easily). So I've always tried to stay open on the alcohol issue, she brought it to my attention that alcohol had begun to be in her life, I remember being a teenager. I kept to my attitude over her being 15, let her know that was unacceptable, she was too young - I explained myself to her, I didn't just tell her no. Did she 100% stay away?...Maybe...I can only say it was never brought to my attention again...

Over summer, she was 16 by then, at family gatherings etc, I've allowed her to have a drink - I want her to know about responsible drinking, no-one overindulges at these times.

Outside of family gatherings, I've altered my policy...I expect trust and openness, I have allowed her to go to small parties of her friends who's parents I know, and have talked to about the party (my daughter has a main group of friends that been around for a long time, their parents are my friends, we're all comfortable with our kids being in each other's care). I have also not allowed her to go to other parties (the big ones that go on..) she's wanted to go to - I have also, after those incidents at 15, told her, if you were to go to one of those parties anyway, my cellphone is available at any hour of the night, my number one concern is your safety, if you're not comfortable in a situation, if you're not comfortable in a car, call me (and she has called me once when a driver got drunk at a friend's when there had been no plan for alcohol..., the friends didn't let the kid drive either).

I'm not sure yet how long I continue this approach or whether I will become more open still in the future (based on HER attitude).

I have this theory that the kid who is allowed openness and choices regarding alcohol while at high school (we can't deny it's there...) is not going to be the kid who spends freshman year drunk and in dangerous situations at college (I remember those kids really well...).

Where do you stand? Do you expect your child to hopefully develop responsibility under your care or do you expect them to avoid it completely? Or something else...?
Disclaimer: I am not a parent, much less of a teenager, and my views on this could change if I become one

Alcohol is not immoral. Giving it to teens is not immoral. Giving it to children - shriek - is not immoral.

However, it is easily abused, and the abuse of alcohol - like all good things - is immoral, sometimes gravely so. Getting drunk - which I define as the substantial loss of judgment - is wrong in almost any situation that one would encounter today, since it reduces human beings to animals. But enjoying alcohol in moderation is not immoral, and I would argue that it is not immoral per se whether one is 30 or 13.

The problem is that in modern American culture, alcohol consumption is not a completely "normalized" behavior. This holds especially true with minor consumption, which is a "dramatized" by both the media and culture. The news media dramatizes it as a moral crisis, and popular culture portrays it, in many instances, as sensationally positive and as "in-group" or "subcultural" behavior which is a major part of adolescent group differentiation from older adults, and a stage in individual maturation. It's basically expected here that teens will begin drinking for the sole purpose of intoxication at 16 or 17, and spend (at least) the first few years of their college education binge drinking. Sayings like "nights that you'll never remember with friends you'll never forget" and songs like Ke$ha's "Tik Tok" (among countless others) both manifest and reinforce this attitude. On the other hand, the legal drinking age is 21 and enforced strictly, and there is a generalized hysteria about youth drinking. This contrast - a social paradox - is unhealthy.

Ideally, children would be introduced to alcohol at a young age in a family setting, with their first drinks watered down. Moderation would be strictly emphasized, and any immoderation would be the subject of ostracism. This would treat alcohol as it really is - a good thing in moderation. Unfortunately, neither the U.S. nor many other cultures (e.g. British, Swedish, Mexican, etc.) work this way, and individual parents can only do so much before they are overwhelmed by the influence of the overall culture, exercised through the child's peer group among other mediums.

I don't know what the right approach is, but introducing a child of sufficient age to watered-down wine or beer and treating it as a gift to be consumed in moderation would not seem to do any harm, and might take some of the thrill and adventure out of drinking in later years.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:02 AM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,090 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207
Mmmm, yes, I think you may change your opinion if you become the parent of a teen.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:49 PM
 
Location: The brown house on the cul de sac
2,081 posts, read 2,750,403 times
Reputation: 9269
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Ideally, children would be introduced to alcohol at a young age in a family setting, with their first drinks watered down.
Yet, studies show that the younger they start the more problems they have with alcoholism....and European countries have higher rates of it than the US.
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