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It's obvious you don't understand learning disabilities. Some people can never be 100% in all areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom
I personally don't get not stressing work ethic. Being "smart" in and of itself isn't worth all that much. It's what you do with it that matters. That is paramount in my book.
I don't view it as a work ethic issue. My son always studied and did his homework. He did his work.
He would lose his homework between Point A and Point B. That's disorganization, not work ethic.
I know many successful, disorganized people. I know many organized people who can't get anything done because they stress about details.
I'm just saying organization isn't the be all and end all of success IRL. Sure, organization is important, but there are other important attributes too.
I'm just saying organization isn't the be all and end all of success IRL.
No...I never said it's the be all and end all but learning disability or not, getting something turned in on time is a necessary life skill. If there are difficulties or disabilities, the fact remains,they need to be addressed prior to entering the work force. The earlier the better. There are no IEPs in jobs. You don't keep your job based on test scores or GPA, you get paid for what you actually accomplish, not what your potential is or what your IQ is. If a parent is aware their child struggles with getting things turned in on time, that is something that needs to be dealt with (which was my very first comment on this thread BTW). But the OP stated, this hasn't been a continuous issue with her son - and he seemed unconcerned when it came up earlier. There ARE actually smart kids who just are uninterested in turning in work. I know several. They find it boring and beneath their abilities and feel that because they can score well on tests, that is all that matters. Not saying this is the OP's son, just that those kids DO exist. I have no idea what is the issue with her son but it certainly needs to be figured out. He either needs to understand that effort is worth something OR he needs help learning organization ...or maybe something else. But I think the OP is right to be concerned.
I HAD to , NOT NEGOTIABLE, I HAD to organize my things with MY organizational system.
I could never do the whole organizing by someone else's standards, it made me even more unorganized.
I had to sort things mentally and physically, I had to come up with a system I could mentally handle remembering and something that didn't bombard me and then I could physically do it with no issues.
I actually had to do that exact same thing in one of my classes in school. It threw me off so bad, I so badly needed to be able to do it in a way that I could keep under control.
I wouldn't punish your son for it.
For lack of a better word that's pretty lame.
I still can't do it to this day, never have never will.
If you want me to be productive don't dictate how I organize my personal business.
Once my papers were graded and I was done, I kept them at home, my backpack was heavy enough. I kept my papers long enough to study for a test but that was it.. I kept spirals and folders for work, not binders. Never would have worked for me..
You wanna load my backpack down with a bunch of unnecessary crap, you can fecking carry it yourself...
Even now, I have a sprial notebook and my criminal justice book. I keep everything in there.
I have no need for a binder and dividers and sections and all that crap.
The title of the OP's thread is "Punish bad grade, reward good grade". The boy suffered a tangible punishment for the bad grade (laptop removed), but didn't receive a tangible reward for the good grade - just 'good job' words. I think, if you're going to use the punishment/reward system, they either both need to be tangible, or both intangible. So I can see why the child thought it was all a bit unfair. He got no reward for his good grade.
Edited to add: With a tangible reward/punishment system your son - on this particular occasion - would have received no reward for his good grade, but no punishment for his bad grade.
No...I never said it's the be all and end all but learning disability or not, getting something turned in on time is a necessary life skill. If there are difficulties or disabilities, the fact remains,they need to be addressed prior to entering the work force. The earlier the better. There are no IEPs in jobs. You don't keep your job based on test scores or GPA, you get paid for what you actually accomplish, not what your potential is or what your IQ is. If a parent is aware their child struggles with getting things turned in on time, that is something that needs to be dealt with (which was my very first comment on this thread BTW).
I'm saying punishments don't teach people with learning disabilities how to overcome learning disabilities.
And not all learning disabilities are corrected 100%. You learn to rely on your strengths to compensate for your weaknesses.
The discussion in this thread was surrouned by the perfection idea. Needing a perfect grade for the organiation 'gimme.' Needing 100% homework logged. Needing a binder, portfolio, notebook perfect. That's not realistic if a child has a learning disability that involves organization. If a child has a learning disabilty in another subject, you strive for that child to become competent, not stellar. Stellar might be an impossibility. If a child who has a learning disability in math gets C's in math, a parent wouldn't punish the child for getting C's. Why should an A be expected for organization if the child has a learning disability involving organization? It's not logical.
There are no IEP's with jobs, but there is a career out there for everyone. It's possible to be disorganized and be very successful. It's possible to meet deadlines too. I'm living proof. (I NEVER turned in homework when I was a kid.) My son has proven to be a very good worker. I have complete faith he will do well in the real world also.
I HAD to , NOT NEGOTIABLE, I HAD to organize my things with MY organizational system.
I could never do the whole organizing by someone else's standards, it made me even more unorganized.
I had to sort things mentally and physically, I had to come up with a system I could mentally handle remembering and something that didn't bombard me and then I could physically do it with no issues.
I actually had to do that exact same thing in one of my classes in school. It threw me off so bad, I so badly needed to be able to do it in a way that I could keep under control.
I wouldn't punish your son for it.
For lack of a better word that's pretty lame.
I still can't do it to this day, never have never will.
If you want me to be productive don't dictate how I organize my personal business.
Once my papers were graded and I was done, I kept them at home, my backpack was heavy enough. I kept my papers long enough to study for a test but that was it.. I kept spirals and folders for work, not binders. Never would have worked for me..
You wanna load my backpack down with a bunch of unnecessary crap, you can fecking carry it yourself...
Even now, I have a sprial notebook and my criminal justice book. I keep everything in there.
I have no need for a binder and dividers and sections and all that crap.
You bring up an excellent point, txtqueen. Just because a student can't organize the exact way a teacher wants things organized, doesn't mean the student isn't capable of having a degree of organization that allows the student to function. That's ultimately what my son did. When he figured out his OWN way to organize, he didn't lose things as often. However, he would still fall short on notebook or binder check grades because the assessment was based on the teacher's own criteria for organization.
You're right. The portfolio grade reflects the management of paperwork.
Normally we don't "punish" bad grades. He is a smart kid who tries to rush through work and studying to get to fun. (Who doesn't?)
The punishment aspect came up because, the night before he was turning in the portfolio make-ups (after he had gotten an original grade of 55), he did not seem very concerned about making sure he had all the paperwork organized. He kept blowing us off about it saying he was pretty sure he had all the worksheets, like he was "close enough."
That's when his dad said, OK, if you don't get a 90 on the make-up, you lose your laptop for a week. Then we had to follow through with the consequences at the same time he told us about the good test grade.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
I appreciate the ideas. He has always been a self-starter and has had no previous problems with organization. Because he is very smart, this teacher is really challenging him, and I think it may be the first real time. Maybe he doesn't have a good system and no one noticed it until now because he was always able to get by.
This teacher is treating them like high school students, which is what they will be next year. So I am grateful that he is exposing them to this kind of workload. I think a review of my son's organizational system is in order.
The good grade/bad effort thing still bugs me, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
His attitude is what got him in trouble, even though I phrased it here initially as punishment for a bad grade. ...
The grades perfectly reflect his MO. He is able to do great on tests because he can come through in the clutch, but he is not great at daily maintenance stuff. When we were trying to help him monitor it, he blew us off and indicated that "close enough" would be OK with him. That's when the laptop thing came up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
I really appreciate all the replies. Srsly.
I've been reading them with my husband, and now he's a little upset because I said that he punished our son for getting a bad grade. He pulled the laptop because he says the portfolio is a "gimme" grade. It's strictly an effort issue.
The portfolio is supposed to be a daily grade maintained by the kid. The teacher even keeps a list on the board of exactly what is supposed to be in the portfolio on the due date. So the fact remains that my kids has known all along what should be in the portfolio; he just didn't keep up with it the way he promised he would after the first bad try.
Sounds to me like a relatively normal 8th grade boy: bright but more concerned with test grades than work output. I personally think that the parents are correct in stressing work ethic/effort as well as test grades. He may need assistance in getting organized but I would not allow him to use high test grades as an excuse for not turning in work. That's just me though.
I HAD to , NOT NEGOTIABLE, I HAD to organize my things with MY organizational system.
I could never do the whole organizing by someone else's standards, it made me even more unorganized.
I had to sort things mentally and physically, I had to come up with a system I could mentally handle remembering and something that didn't bombard me and then I could physically do it with no issues.
I actually had to do that exact same thing in one of my classes in school. It threw me off so bad, I so badly needed to be able to do it in a way that I could keep under control.
I wouldn't punish your son for it.
For lack of a better word that's pretty lame.
I still can't do it to this day, never have never will.
If you want me to be productive don't dictate how I organize my personal business.
Once my papers were graded and I was done, I kept them at home, my backpack was heavy enough. I kept my papers long enough to study for a test but that was it.. I kept spirals and folders for work, not binders. Never would have worked for me..
You wanna load my backpack down with a bunch of unnecessary crap, you can fecking carry it yourself...
Even now, I have a sprial notebook and my criminal justice book. I keep everything in there.
I have no need for a binder and dividers and sections and all that crap.
That all sounds great but in reality, people (like teachers and bosses) DO actually get to tell you what to do, how to do it and when it's due. That's just a fact of life. You can do things your way on your own time.
Sounds to me like a relatively normal 8th grade boy: bright but more concerned with test grades than work output. I personally think that the parents are correct in stressing work ethic/effort as well as test grades. He may need assistance in getting organized but I would not allow him to use high test grades as an excuse for not turning in work. That's just me though.
You know, I like you, but you're twisting my intentions. I never said that they shouldn't stress work ethic/effort.
I'm saying they may need to reevaluate their position if the problem continues, especially since his twin brother has a neurological deficit in executive functioning.
Hopes...I'm not twisting your words I'm simply restating the OP's words. She said several times her son had a lassez faire attitude about his work. Your son has an issue, you are dealing with it in a way that apparently works for him. That's great but it doesn't mean that is the issue with the OP. Even if his twin has issues. It may be, it may not be. You can't determine a learning disability just based on some posts. I clearly stated in my first post that he may need help with organizational skills. They need to figure out how to overcome whatever issue there might be...whether it is simply laziness on the son's part or whether he needs assistance. The sooner they address this the better. If he needs help, he needs to learn to ask for help and take it when offered. It sounds to me like he didn't accept offered help regarding things. That would be unacceptable to me, as a parent. There is nothting wrong with needing help. I have a big problem with disregarding needed help when offered.
I have actually been through this with my own son. He's very disorganized. He was eligible to receive his driver's license a year ago but because he had some missing assignments in school, his grades weren't what they could have been. We let him know all year what was expected of him in order to receive his license. When his grades came he did not achieve what was expected. He did not get his license. Amazingly enough, he went through the next semester without a missing assignment.... I understand he is not naturally organized like his sister. I don't expect him to be like her. I do however, expect that he make the effort to figure out what it takes for him to succeed or if he doesn't know what to do, to ask for help. And follow through. We told him all the while that whatever he needed from us, we would do. But he still had to wait to get his license. It was his responsibility.
Last edited by maciesmom; 09-28-2010 at 11:23 PM..
Reason: sp
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because I said that he punished our son for getting a bad grade.
. I understand he is not naturally organized like his sister. I don't expect him to be like her. I do however, expect that he make the effort to figure out what it takes for him to succeed or if he doesn't know what to do, to ask for help. And follow through. We told him all the while that whatever he needed from us, we would do. But he still had to wait to get his license. It was his responsibility.
