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Old 01-07-2011, 10:34 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 9,248,179 times
Reputation: 3177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I've been thinking about this. Parents feel personally responsible for everything, including educating themselves about the minute details of medical science, and I think it's kind of overwhelming to some. Analysis paralysis. Not that I can't learn as much as I can about something, but I can't learn everything about everything and don't even want to.
That is a great term.

I was just reading some info on the pregnancy thread & looking up some things to find out that the "hiccups" one feels when preggers...well, if there are TOO many of them it could mean your baby is having umbilical cord issues. And if your baby is TOO active, same thing... Glad I never knew this as my baby days are over or else I'd be a nervous wreck every time the baby kicked/hiccup.

Too much info is readily available at our fingertips 24hrs a day. We are all oversaturated.

One time w/ #1, my ped took my hand, looked me in the eye & said very gently "Stop". It was the best advice.

 
Old 01-08-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: east coast
250 posts, read 805,349 times
Reputation: 327
I haven't read all the posts but this is something you likely won't see on mainstream media:

Scientists fear MMR link to autism | Mail Online

My first child who had some delays I did stop vaccinating til older. He had speech delays, suspected autism and all that. I'm also a medical professional and know the importance of (some) vaccines. I saw some because some vaxs aren't that effective and the resulting illness not that awful. My kids dont get flu shots, they also didn't get hep B til later, or prevnar....I felt it was in his best interest to stop injecting him with some neurotoxins for a bit after we became aware of this delay. Toxins are toxins whether we're talking pesticides, environmental chemicals and all of that. He is no longer in speech but does have attention issues. That said I did NOT vaccinate my youngest son at all til 2 yrs old (he is not fully vaxed at age 6). He did not have similar issues. I am not suggesting a link here I just wanted to be on the safe side. I do NOT regret any of what we did, the only thing I regret is allowing the nurse to inject my day old baby with hep B and giving him the 15 or so shots we did before we noticed a delay.

Do I believe the link? eh...maybe/maybe not I just don't hold such strong opinion on this. I do believe parents though who really are the ones who know their child and if they have a gut that something caused it I do believe it.
I believe there is some environmental link in all of this but we don't know how all of this effects the developing brain. I encourage parents to just be active and not believe mainstream media and docs. My pediatrician confessed to me she doesn't vaccinate either...this spoke volumes to me at the time. She does still encourage her patients to follow AAP recommendations. They are recommendations though but most parents are scared into getting them all as a necessity and this is what bothers me. In many states your child can indeed go to public school without them (sign the affidavit waiver).

My thoughts are there are simply too many vaccinates all at once before age 2. I believe kids today are vaxed with 20 more shots that I was (mid thirties). Is this cause alone for autism? no, but I think that we're looking at more than autism today. SOOO many developmental delays and attentional problems. This is just my view having a medical and a degree in biological science and studying neurology/physiology. My children are both fully (almost) vaccinated now. They eventually did get the MMR.

I am tired of all the name calling, finger pointing and in general making the parents of children with delays/autism/adhd etc feel like horrible parents for helping, supporting and doing what THEY feel is in the best interest of THEIR child. The interesting thing is that all the parents involved in wakefield's study still support him. I just would encourage parents to visit National Vaccine Information Center
I find the site helpful and more or less not as biased. I'd say most parents go to pediatric appts and are not sure what vaxs are due, what vaxs will be given or what the nurse walking in has in her syringes. Most don't even read the info sheet that likely is given to them after the immunization either.
It has been my experience that parents of children with delays work twice as hard as those without delays/autism etc. The amount of time, effort financial drain..all of it is something that I have empathy for--not pointing fingers saying "see told you this study was false now what's the next ludicrous explanation you'll follow?"..instead I wish that people started supporting this more. I really see no need for judgment here. I suspect parents all want the 'ease' of parenting the typical child.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
The National Vaccine Information Center is a cleverly named anti-immunization website that peddles a lot of misinformation. Its stance can be summed up as "we're not opposed to immunizations, but. . . "

Regarding Wakefield's study, fraud is fraud and has no defense.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 34,677,768 times
Reputation: 20198
militarymom, your link to a blog in the Daily Mail refers to something Dr. Stephen Walker said "last night."

That "last night" occurred in 2006 and has been debunked MANY times over in the last 5 years.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:32 AM
 
8,323 posts, read 8,599,004 times
Reputation: 25991
Quote:
I haven't read all the posts but this is something you likely won't see on mainstream media:
Well, this opening comment is an enormous clue to me where you are coming from. It would be impossible for the "mainstream media" as you call them to organize some kind of conspiracy to keep parents from learning the "truth" about vaccines. There are thousands of media outlets all over this country. To speak of them as though they were one entity is ridiculous.

Quote:
I encourage parents to just be active and not believe mainstream media and docs. My pediatrician confessed to me she doesn't vaccinate either...this spoke volumes to me at the time. She does still encourage her patients to follow AAP recommendations. They are recommendations though but most parents are scared into getting them all as a necessity and this is what bothers me. In many states your child can indeed go to public school without them (sign the affidavit waiver).
If my child's pediatrician told me they were against vaccination, they would no longer be my child's pediatrician. There is nothing, I repeat nothing any pediatrician can do for a child medically that has the same importance as seeing that that child get vaccinated to prevent disease.

Waiver forms are a real bone of contention for me. I don't think parents should be allowed to opt out of vaccination--if they are sending kids to PUBLIC school. The only excuse for not vaccinating your kids should be some kind of evidence that the child is allergic or likely to be allergic to a given vaccine. Parents who don't want to vaccinate should have to keep their kids at home where they can't infect anyone else. Unfortunately, some state laws do cater to the most irresponsible people in society and that is a shame.

Quote:
My thoughts are there are simply too many vaccinates all at once before age 2. I believe kids today are vaxed with 20 more shots that I was (mid thirties). Is this cause alone for autism? no, but I think that we're looking at more than autism today. SOOO many developmental delays and attentional problems. This is just my view having a medical and a degree in biological science and studying neurology/physiology. My children are both fully (almost) vaccinated now. They eventually did get the MMR.
This is a common argument brought up by the anti-vaccine crowd. Its a silly argument too. Vaccines generally contain dead viruses that prompt an immune reaction from the body. Now, have you ever stopped to think about how many thousands (or millions) of live viruses that the average child is exposed too in daily life? If something was going to "overwhelm the immune system" that's what would overwhelm it. In fact, every time your child gets a cold their immune system was "overwhelmed" by all the germs out there in the world. It is not be exposure to a few dead viruses that are received through immunizations that "overwhelms the immune system" as you say.

Quote:
I am tired of all the name calling, finger pointing and in general making the parents of children with delays/autism/adhd etc feel like horrible parents for helping, supporting and doing what THEY feel is in the best interest of THEIR child. The interesting thing is that all the parents involved in wakefield's study still support him. I just would encourage parents to visit National Vaccine Information Center
I find the site helpful and more or less not as biased.
I am tired of all the uneducated, misinformed people, who have no clue about virology, bacteriology, or the public health implications of not vaccinating millions of children who continue to spout ignorance almost 24/7 about immunization. You, and many others do not appreciate immunization because of its success in controlling diseases. You, ma'am, were not alive at time when parents had to put their children in iron lungs because they had been paralyzed by polio. You were not present, thank God, when children contracted diptheria and slowly suffocated because of the way that disease works. You never had to bury a family member who died of red measles or small pox because even the funeral homes were too afraid to deal with their body. You've probably never been present to watch a baby go through the awful, terrible convulsive cough that the disease of whooping cough produces.

Do you know what is really wrong with immunization? That it has been as successful as it has been in eradicating disease. Because of that success entire generations of mothers (and fathers) are virtually clueless why there is even a need to immunize. So, it is very easy for you and others to focus on what is speculative and the product of ignorance and hysteria.

Some day, take a look at the profiles and resumes of those on the National Vaccine Information Board of Directors. I did that. You'll find one person with a background in counseling. Another with a background in computer science. Most of the people on it don't even claim to have a college degree. You won't find anyone with a background in public health, biology, or a medical doctor. Why you would choose to take advise from such a group over competent bodies such as the Center for Disease Control (CDC) which makes the vaccine recommendations or the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) which has to approve all vaccines as "safe and effective" before they can be used is a mystery to me. Yet, I see anti-vaccine zealots do this constantly.

I do not deny you the right to an opinion. I will oppose you or anyone else spreading misinformation about vaccination.

Last edited by markg91359; 01-08-2011 at 09:41 AM..
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
The interesting thing is that all the parents involved in wakefield's study still support him.
I don't find that "interesting". The parents who support this crook, and make no mistake that is what he is, don't want to look stupid. So they say, "Yes, but. . . ". That is sad. The guy has no scruples. He's a crook, a liar and a fraud.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,352 posts, read 3,921,309 times
Reputation: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by omigawd View Post
Gee, what happened to the generations and generations of kids who got all the immunizations and never "caught" autism? duh.
The number and amount of immunizations given to kids today has not been given for "generations and generations". 100 years ago, only the smallpox vaccine existed. Kids routinely got measles until the mid-60's, when the measles vaccine was developed.

There's a timeline here:
Immunization Timeline and the History of Vaccines - Keep Kids Healthy

I understand peoples' hesitancy to trust the medicine/insurance machine - which is, in this country, more about profits than actual patient care.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,557 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26585
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteGal View Post
The number and amount of immunizations given to kids today has not been given for "generations and generations". 100 years ago, only the smallpox vaccine existed. Kids routinely got measles until the mid-60's, when the measles vaccine was developed.
And kids died from measles. All of the newer vaccines are for illnesses that can kill children. The names of the illnesses may not be as familiar to you, but they are not trivial. Concern about "the number and amount" of vaccines is misplaced and based on theories of immunology concocted by the anti-vax crowd that are totally fallacious.


Quote:
I understand peoples' hesitancy to trust the medicine/insurance machine - which is, in this country, more about profits than actual patient care.
I challenge you to ask a pediatrician how much profit he makes on a vaccine. Many of them actually eventually stop giving vaccines in the office and send patients to the Health Department because the cost of providing vaccines is less than the reimbursement.

Vaccines prevent illness. It would bring in more money to the "medicine" machine for people to get sick and require hospitalization, antibiotics (you can get bacterial pneumonia on top of the flu, for example) and other medications.

You are right about the insurance companies, though. Vaccines save them money --- because fewer people get sick and file insurance claims.

Edited to add: Those in medicine who spend their lives working long hard hours when they are smart enough to be doing something much more lucrative would consider your comment that medicine is not about patient care to be a slap in the face.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,803,744 times
Reputation: 14677
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Do you know what is really wrong with immunization? That it has been as successful as it has been in eradicating disease. Because of that success entire generations of mothers (and fathers) are virtually clueless why there is even a need to immunize. So, it is very easy for you and others to focus on what is speculative and the product of ignorance and hysteria.
This is so very true especially with regard to pertussis and measles. So many think of them as mild childhood illnesses, which they most definitely are not. As for Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type B), I can't tell you how many times I have seen people on these boards refer to this as a flu shot. Hib is one of the most awful diseases I have ever had the misfortune to see.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
This is so very true especially with regard to pertussis and measles. So many think of them as mild childhood illnesses, which they most definitely are not. As for Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type B), I can't tell you how many times I have seen people on these boards refer to this as a flu shot. Hib is one of the most awful diseases I have ever had the misfortune to see.
Agreed, and this disease isn't one that has been relegated to the ancient history books. A friend of mine has a son, age 29, who got hib meningitis before the vaccine was available, and another friend has a son, age 26, ditto.
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