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Old 01-08-2011, 02:36 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,144,270 times
Reputation: 3579

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakija9311 View Post
Common sense tells a person that it isn't the immunizations.

All the chemicals people use every day. But then, people would have to take personal responsibility for what happens to their children.
You really contradict yourself with these two statements. Many people, just like you, theorize that chemicals and environmental toxins may trigger autism in genetically susceptible individuals. Yet you are ignoring the fact that chemicals and toxins are also found in vaccines. If you believe that the cause is related to chemicals then how can you so easily discount vaccinations as a potential trigger?

 
Old 01-08-2011, 03:00 PM
 
15,302 posts, read 16,854,240 times
Reputation: 15020
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakija9311 View Post
Common sense tells a person that it isn't the immunizations.

All the chemicals people use every day. But then, people would have to take personal responsibility for what happens to their children.

It IS an epidemic. "Normal" USED to be epidemic. "Normal USED to have the wide spectrum and autism, ADHD, ADD and all the other labels used, USED to be pinpoints.

Now normal is a pinpoint and all the others, including autism, ADHD and ADD are epidemic in their wide spectrums.
When did one to two percent become wide. 98% of the population is still NT.

Another factor is that because children who used to be kept hidden away in institutions or closed rooms at home are now out and about in the community and we see them, there is some perception that there are many many more than there used to be. It's simply not true.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: east coast
250 posts, read 805,095 times
Reputation: 327
Just a quick response. I have two children and do not often sit at my computer reading lengthy detailed posts but I found this interesting which is why I admitted I have not read all responses...if this somehow offends you please read and move on. You come back as quite defensive on this topic and hold strong opinions. I mentioned I do not and can respect both arguments whichever parents think best for their child. I do what I do in the best interest of my own children. period.

I believe the gov't has recommendations and that is what they are. I know what the CDC and FDA say, but I like to read other sources as well whether or not I agree with them I read them.

I studied graduate level baceteriology, virology, human physiology...I'm a RN. You would be very surprised at what pediatricians chose for their own child whether they admit it to you or not. From the ones I know I'd say it's about 40/60 with 60% vaxing. Yes it is possible they can hold their own opinion on the subject. They do tend to tow party lines when it comes to public health as do I (which ironically I have participated in immunization clinics myself despite my beliefs personally for my own children with spacing them out more).

I believe there are common arguments in either direction. You come down on me as if I was anti vaccine. I said admittedly that I was not-but I personally do not like the current schedule. I have known 4 kids now who got vaccinated with varicella twice per schedule and they all got the pox. I didn't see the reason to get the vax and am and will be responsible if my child gets chicken pox like I did. Oh and by the way, my father had polio. My children did not get hepB at birth since they won't be having sex...they got polio.

I may have gotten the wrong tone from your argument but it seemed condescending, suggesting I was uneducated and misinformed and that I was too young to make decisions because I had not seen these horrid diseases myself. I have spent numerous hours researching this and struggling to make a decision on what was best for our family. I have worked in this field myself. This is the exact tone I think we can do without when it comes to parenting choices, the judgment and lack of acceptance and rude behavior. Have some respect, if your child is vaccinated they should be perfectly fine and 'safe' then if an outbreak occurs correct?








Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Well, this opening comment is an enormous clue to me where you are coming from. It would be impossible for the "mainstream media" as you call them to organize some kind of conspiracy to keep parents from learning the "truth" about vaccines. There are thousands of media outlets all over this country. To speak of them as though they were one entity is ridiculous.



If my child's pediatrician told me they were against vaccination, they would no longer be my child's pediatrician. There is nothing, I repeat nothing any pediatrician can do for a child medically that has the same importance as seeing that that child get vaccinated to prevent disease.

Waiver forms are a real bone of contention for me. I don't think parents should be allowed to opt out of vaccination--if they are sending kids to PUBLIC school. The only excuse for not vaccinating your kids should be some kind of evidence that the child is allergic or likely to be allergic to a given vaccine. Parents who don't want to vaccinate should have to keep their kids at home where they can't infect anyone else. Unfortunately, some state laws do cater to the most irresponsible people in society and that is a shame.



This is a common argument brought up by the anti-vaccine crowd. Its a silly argument too. Vaccines generally contain dead viruses that prompt an immune reaction from the body. Now, have you ever stopped to think about how many thousands (or millions) of live viruses that the average child is exposed too in daily life? If something was going to "overwhelm the immune system" that's what would overwhelm it. In fact, every time your child gets a cold their immune system was "overwhelmed" by all the germs out there in the world. It is not be exposure to a few dead viruses that are received through immunizations that "overwhelms the immune system" as you say.



I am tired of all the uneducated, misinformed people, who have no clue about virology, bacteriology, or the public health implications of not vaccinating millions of children who continue to spout ignorance almost 24/7 about immunization. You, and many others do not appreciate immunization because of its success in controlling diseases. You, ma'am, were not alive at time when parents had to put their children in iron lungs because they had been paralyzed by polio. You were not present, thank God, when children contracted diptheria and slowly suffocated because of the way that disease works. You never had to bury a family member who died of red measles or small pox because even the funeral homes were too afraid to deal with their body. You've probably never been present to watch a baby go through the awful, terrible convulsive cough that the disease of whooping cough produces.

Do you know what is really wrong with immunization? That it has been as successful as it has been in eradicating disease. Because of that success entire generations of mothers (and fathers) are virtually clueless why there is even a need to immunize. So, it is very easy for you and others to focus on what is speculative and the product of ignorance and hysteria.

Some day, take a look at the profiles and resumes of those on the National Vaccine Information Board of Directors. I did that. You'll find one person with a background in counseling. Another with a background in computer science. Most of the people on it don't even claim to have a college degree. You won't find anyone with a background in public health, biology, or a medical doctor. Why you would choose to take advise from such a group over competent bodies such as the Center for Disease Control (CDC) which makes the vaccine recommendations or the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) which has to approve all vaccines as "safe and effective" before they can be used is a mystery to me. Yet, I see anti-vaccine zealots do this constantly.

I do not deny you the right to an opinion. I will oppose you or anyone else spreading misinformation about vaccination.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 05:07 PM
 
Location: here
24,472 posts, read 28,756,384 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by militarymom View Post
Just a quick response. I have two children and do not often sit at my computer reading lengthy detailed posts but I found this interesting which is why I admitted I have not read all responses...if this somehow offends you please read and move on. You come back as quite defensive on this topic and hold strong opinions. I mentioned I do not and can respect both arguments whichever parents think best for their child. I do what I do in the best interest of my own children. period.

I believe the gov't has recommendations and that is what they are. I know what the CDC and FDA say, but I like to read other sources as well whether or not I agree with them I read them.

I studied graduate level baceteriology, virology, human physiology...I'm a RN. You would be very surprised at what pediatricians chose for their own child whether they admit it to you or not. From the ones I know I'd say it's about 40/60 with 60% vaxing. Yes it is possible they can hold their own opinion on the subject. They do tend to tow party lines when it comes to public health as do I (which ironically I have participated in immunization clinics myself despite my beliefs personally for my own children with spacing them out more).

I believe there are common arguments in either direction. You come down on me as if I was anti vaccine. I said admittedly that I was not-but I personally do not like the current schedule. I have known 4 kids now who got vaccinated with varicella twice per schedule and they all got the pox. I didn't see the reason to get the vax and am and will be responsible if my child gets chicken pox like I did. Oh and by the way, my father had polio. My children did not get hepB at birth since they won't be having sex...they got polio.

I may have gotten the wrong tone from your argument but it seemed condescending, suggesting I was uneducated and misinformed and that I was too young to make decisions because I had not seen these horrid diseases myself. I have spent numerous hours researching this and struggling to make a decision on what was best for our family. I have worked in this field myself. This is the exact tone I think we can do without when it comes to parenting choices, the judgment and lack of acceptance and rude behavior. Have some respect, if your child is vaccinated they should be perfectly fine and 'safe' then if an outbreak occurs correct?
not necessarily. My son had an immune deficiency that was diagnosed right around his 1st birthday. We found out that some of the vaccines he's been given did not work and he was actually susceptible to some things like pertussis that we assumed he was safe from. A non-vaccinated child could have killed him even though I tried to protect him. Will you take responsibility if your non-vaccinated child gets chicken pox and gives it to an infant who is too young to have been vaccinated yet?
 
Old 01-08-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,008 posts, read 98,863,560 times
Reputation: 31451
Quote:
Originally Posted by militarymom View Post
Just a quick response. I have two children and do not often sit at my computer reading lengthy detailed posts but I found this interesting which is why I admitted I have not read all responses...if this somehow offends you please read and move on. You come back as quite defensive on this topic and hold strong opinions. I mentioned I do not and can respect both arguments whichever parents think best for their child. I do what I do in the best interest of my own children. period.

I believe the gov't has recommendations and that is what they are. I know what the CDC and FDA say, but I like to read other sources as well whether or not I agree with them I read them.

I studied graduate level baceteriology, virology, human physiology...I'm a RN. You would be very surprised at what pediatricians chose for their own child whether they admit it to you or not. From the ones I know I'd say it's about 40/60 with 60% vaxing. Yes it is possible they can hold their own opinion on the subject. They do tend to tow party lines when it comes to public health as do I (which ironically I have participated in immunization clinics myself despite my beliefs personally for my own children with spacing them out more).

I believe there are common arguments in either direction. You come down on me as if I was anti vaccine. I said admittedly that I was not-but I personally do not like the current schedule. I have known 4 kids now who got vaccinated with varicella twice per schedule and they all got the pox. I didn't see the reason to get the vax and am and will be responsible if my child gets chicken pox like I did. Oh and by the way, my father had polio. My children did not get hepB at birth since they won't be having sex...they got polio.

I may have gotten the wrong tone from your argument but it seemed condescending, suggesting I was uneducated and misinformed and that I was too young to make decisions because I had not seen these horrid diseases myself. I have spent numerous hours researching this and struggling to make a decision on what was best for our family. I have worked in this field myself. This is the exact tone I think we can do without when it comes to parenting choices, the judgment and lack of acceptance and rude behavior. Have some respect, if your child is vaccinated they should be perfectly fine and 'safe' then if an outbreak occurs correct?
You never know when your kids will first start having sex, voluntarily or involuntarily. If one of your daughters is raped, she could get Hep B. It is better to be immunized before you are at risk for a disease, rather than after. In addition, about 40% of Hep B cases have no known source. That means there's a lot about Hep B that we don' know.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 05:56 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,144,270 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You never know when your kids will first start having sex, voluntarily or involuntarily. If one of your daughters is raped, she could get Hep B. It is better to be immunized before you are at risk for a disease, rather than after. In addition, about 40% of Hep B cases have no known source. That means there's a lot about Hep B that we don' know.

I don't think she has to worry about that in infancy though.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,008 posts, read 98,863,560 times
Reputation: 31451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I don't think she has to worry about that in infancy though.
No, in infancy, this is the concern:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In addition, about 40% of Hep B cases have no known source. That means there's a lot about Hep B that we don' know.
Plus, it's preferable to get the kids immunized before they're at risk.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 06:29 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 4,499,591 times
Reputation: 5024
I wonder if anyone will attempt manslaughter charges against him?
 
Old 01-08-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,706 posts, read 2,924,722 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You never know when your kids will first start having sex, voluntarily or involuntarily. If one of your daughters is raped, she could get Hep B. It is better to be immunized before you are at risk for a disease, rather than after. In addition, about 40% of Hep B cases have no known source. That means there's a lot about Hep B that we don' know.
Exactly! Hep B isn't just caused by sex. I'm a music teacher and therefore I'm at a higher risk category for Hep B. Why? Because of all of the bodily fluids in the instrument. "Here, let me see if I can play your instrument to see what is wrong with it." type of situations.

Ever have your child share a lollipop??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I don't think she has to worry about that in infancy though.
You've never heard of infants being sexually molested? A parent can give it to the child by licking a spoon and then feeding the child.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,352 posts, read 3,919,462 times
Reputation: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I interpreted CharlotteGal's post to represent a concern about the increased number of vaccines. If that is not what she intended, I hope she will clarify her position.

It was omigawd who said, "Duh." Not me.
I do not care to state my position here. I will say I did not intend my post the way you took it.

Can't rep you, Finster, but thanks for actually reading the post that was there!
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