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Old 01-08-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteGal View Post
I do not care to state my position here. I will say I did not intend my post the way you took it.

Can't rep you, Finster, but thanks for actually reading the post that was there!
Sorry I misunderstood. I've reread your post several times and still am puzzled. Also puzzled that you do not want to clarify what you did mean.

 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:38 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,145,823 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_hug99 View Post
Exactly! Hep B isn't just caused by sex. I'm a music teacher and therefore I'm at a higher risk category for Hep B. Why? Because of all of the bodily fluids in the instrument. "Here, let me see if I can play your instrument to see what is wrong with it." type of situations.

Ever have your child share a lollipop??
Hep B is not transmitted via saliva.

Quote:
You've never heard of infants being sexually molested? A parent can give it to the child by licking a spoon and then feeding the child.
Unfortunately I have heard of infants being molested but assuming Mom and Dad aren't molesters and they don't leave their infant with others then I'd say with confidence that said infant isn't going to be molested in their infancy.

Again, Hep B is not transmitted via saliva and a person who is Hep B negative can't give their kid Hep B anyway.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
IMO, the broader picture here, is not the use/non use of vaccines, but the issue that a Medical Doctor who has now been outed as a fraud and a quack, had a study published in The Lancet, the equivalent of the Journal of the American Medical Association - which led to 10 years of fears and doubts on the part of a lot of parents who had the relatively simple act of getting your child immunized turned into a minefield of research and worry over the pros and cons of doing so.

How did a Dr, who as part of the medical community we a told to trust on one hand, but be personally responsible for making our decisions about our children on the other - get this thing published and then get away with perpertrating this fraud on the general public at all? How did this get so out of hand that it even got to this point where vaccination rates have gone down and children and their parents have suffered as a result? Is it the Doctor's fault, the Parent's fault, or the Media's fault?
I think we can lay this 90% at Wakefield's feet and 10% with the Lancet peer review process.

Keep in mind that peer review is not designed to detect fraud. Wakefield LIED to the Lancet. He fabricated the whole study. Then the media ran with it, the way they commonly do.

Quote:
For those of us without the benefit of medical training, I think this has been one of the most unnecessarily stressful things I've had to deal with as far as keeping my kid safe goes. DD didn't start talking until late, so I worried for no reason that perhaps my decision to vaccinate was causing a delay. I'm really quite angry about the whole thing.
I think that many parents are going to feel the same way you do -- and the ones whose children have had vaccine preventable disease are going to feel worse. As another poster mentioned, I think Wakefield should be criminally prosecuted, and I would not be surprised if there are not a lot of civil suits from parents whose children suffered harm because of what he did.

All I can say is that the mistrust of the CDC is totally unwarranted. By the time the CDC makes a recommendation --- vaccines or otherwise --- large numbers of knowledgeable scientists have collaborated to provide the best possible information that is supported by the evidence available at the time. I would say to parents to evaluate the source of medical information before basing decisions on what you read or hear.

Certainly we have progressed past "doctor knows best." Patients --- parents --- have a right to know the benefits and risks of any medication or procedure. But patients also need to trust the training and experience of their doctors. Doctors do have patients' best interest at heart.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakija9311 View Post
Common sense tells a person that it isn't the immunizations.
Much as I value common sense, you can't use it to replace scientific study. Extensive (and expensive) research has been done that clearly shows no relationship between autism and vaccines.

Quote:
All the chemicals people use every day. But then, people would have to take personal responsibility for what happens to their children.
This is another Very Bad Effect of Wakefield's fraud. People are now convinced that if it is not vaccines, then it is some other drug or chemical. There is nothing yet to support that idea. The weight of the evidence supports a complex genetic mechanism, and that is something that parents have no control over.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Hep B is not transmitted via saliva.



Unfortunately I have heard of infants being molested but assuming Mom and Dad aren't molesters and they don't leave their infant with others then I'd say with confidence that said infant isn't going to be molested in their infancy.

Again, Hep B is not transmitted via saliva and a person who is Hep B negative can't give their kid Hep B anyway.

Why is Hepatitis B Immunization Recommended for All Infants, Children, and Adolescents? - Immunization Issue :

Quote:
"Why Parents Should Vaccinate Their Children against HBV

While HBV is most effectively transmitted from one person to another through blood and body fluids by sexual contact, injection drug use, or occupational exposure ...
Moderator cut: Copyright violation -- please post a link and a "snippet" only, per the Terms of Service.

As I see it, the only reason not to start the hepatitis B vaccine at birth would be if there were evidence that it is either unsafe or ineffective. Since it is both safe and effective for newborns, there is no medical reason to delay the vaccine.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 01-09-2011 at 01:18 PM..
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:12 PM
 
12,447 posts, read 14,582,889 times
Reputation: 14171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The National Vaccine Information Center is a cleverly named anti-immunization website that peddles a lot of misinformation. Its stance can be summed up as "we're not opposed to immunizations, but. . . "

Regarding Wakefield's study, fraud is fraud and has no defense.
Wakefield is a genious, and still regarded with much respect amongst his peers.. mainstream media is too ignorant to realize they are being used to spread lies about him, in the hopes that it can convince people to get the almighty shots. He still has the support of many thousands of parents. We Support Dr. Andrew Wakefield
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
Wakefield is a genious, and still regarded with much respect amongst his peers.. mainstream media is too ignorant to realize they are being used to spread lies about him, in the hopes that it can convince people to get the almighty shots. He still has the support of many thousands of parents. We Support Dr. Andrew Wakefield
Wakefield's peers withdrew their support of his paper.

He has lost his medical license.

He is certainly not regarded with respect by people who understand immunology.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,021 posts, read 98,892,281 times
Reputation: 31456
Wakefield is a liar.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,801,828 times
Reputation: 14677
This is an excellent article in the British Medical Journal. It is very long, but gives a detailed account of the scam.

How the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed -- Deer 342 -- bmj.com


I don't usually link to blogs, but this blogger posed some interesting questions about this fiasco:

Autism Blog - Open Letter To Andrew Wakefield Left Brain/Right Brain
 
Old 01-09-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,166,076 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post

I'm glad this guy got debunked, because he has put parents through hell the last few years, and people should be p*ssed at him, not at the new tired parents who are getting bombarded with all sorts of scary misinformation and are the ones that have to make the difficult decisions.
I don't think it's the tired new parents people are irritated with. It's the parents who suddenly became evangelical anti-vaxers based on something they read on the internet.
Vax your kid, don't vax...I don't care. Your kid, your choice. Just don't tell the rest of the world your way is the only way to be a Really Good Caring Parent. Oh, and let me know if you're going to bring your rubella-exposed kid to play group, please.

(disclaimer: the "you" in the previous paragraph was general, not specific)
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