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Old 01-12-2011, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,792,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimme it View Post
Why don't you think children should have unstructured fun? What might happen if they did?
They might......*gasp*....play?
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,764 posts, read 7,699,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post




China has less drug addiction than here for sure. High lead levels and pollution in a rising industrial nation is probably govt exploitation of people in order to serve the american need for products. It has nothing to do with parenting skills! And finally the robotic/conformist Chinese person is just such a racist sterotype. Every person from China I've met is very politically sharp and opinionated. They just conform to high work ethics and dont' care too much about deviating from common fashions - which gives them the impression of being robots. But really, it's preferable to have somebody with those traits than the typical american conformist who tries to be cool with their wacked out fashions, weekend party lifestyle, and crappy work ethics.
Is this not a stereotype as well?
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,764 posts, read 7,699,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimme it View Post
Why don't you think children should have unstructured fun? What might happen if they did?
There is a great book called Amazon.com: Einstein Never Used Flash Cards: How Our Children Really Learn-- And Why They Need to Play More and Memorize Less (9781579546953): Kathy Hirsh-Pasek Ph.D., Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Diane Eyer: Books Its argument, based on SCIENCE, is that kids must play when they are little do develop many necessary neural connections that help later with math and language. I imagine that people that don't let their children play put them at a disadvantage.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:19 AM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,716,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post
Now people, understand that article is mostly stereotype. Many Asian parents do not do that but are able to balance the happiness and laissez-faire of western ways with the high-expectation Eastern ways.
There is a big difference between having high expectations and requiring perfection.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:58 AM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,725,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post
Now people, understand that article is mostly stereotype. Many Asian parents do not do that but are able to balance the happiness and laissez-faire of western ways with the high-expectation Eastern ways. You get some insufferable parents every now and then, but you pretty much get them in every culture. Better to have a parent drive you crazying doing homework than drive you crazy by being an alcoholic or getting divorced.
Now miyu, understand that your posts are mostly stereotype. The idea that western parents are, for the most part, in any way laissez-faire with their kids' futures is no less a stereotype than the Chinese mother stereotype. Which, I'd like to point out, is being furthered by both you and Ms Chua.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post
But really, it's preferable to have somebody with those traits than the typical american conformist who tries to be cool with their wacked out fashions, weekend party lifestyle, and crappy work ethics.
Exhibit B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post
It sure didn't seem like that growing up, but after I matured I was able to see that this is 100% false.
I would put it to you if the mothers with the parenting style we're talking about had to pick whether their children were happy or driven, that they'll pick driven. And I don't see how anybody who is constantly chasing perfection and has been berated about not being good enough their entire lives and into adulthood are going to end up the least bit happy, or even mildly content.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:05 AM
 
Location: NC
645 posts, read 835,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimme it View Post
Why don't you think children should have unstructured fun? What might happen if they did?

My kiddos spend too much time with book learnin'. Every time I come by, they have a book in their hands - I grab it away from them and give them a football or basketball or a guitar or drumsticks instead. I heard recently some teens are getting paid big bucks to play and rate video games. So I tried to get my kids to play more video games - but it don't seem to work. Heck, I just heard of something called "competitive eating" - I figured Daddy is a natural for that - surely must've passed them genes down to the kiddos!

But alas! All they just want to do things like read books, play math games, or do science experiments. I need them to go into sports or entertainment so Daddy can retire, y'all!
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:19 AM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,725,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beans&Cornbread View Post
My kiddos spend too much time with book learnin'. Every time I come by, they have a book in their hands - I grab it away from them and give them a football or basketball or a guitar or drumsticks instead. I heard recently some teens are getting paid big bucks to play and rate video games. So I tried to get my kids to play more video games - but it don't seem to work. Heck, I just heard of something called "competitive eating" - I figured Daddy is a natural for that - surely must've passed them genes down to the kiddos!

But alas! All they just want to do things like read books, play math games, or do science experiments. I need them to go into sports or entertainment so Daddy can retire, y'all!
I hate to break it too ya, Beans&Cornbread, but I read books nonstop as a child and went into the entertainment business nonetheless. Sorry.

My mother didn't quite get to retire, but she did get a few nice trips overseas, some backstage passes, and a few platinum albums out of it. She was quite happy about that.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: state of procrastination
3,487 posts, read 6,127,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Many artists love living their dreams. They aren't rich, but they aren't starving. It's sad you measure success only in terms of wealth.

It's such a shame that the focus is mostly on math and science and art and writing is considered a mere dream to you when China has a rich history in the arts.
Well, it's a shame when people let the maths and sciences go and think of them as some sort of inferior/banal thing. What people don't realize is that they are just as much a part of the fine arts and practice of the arts as the arts themselves. In fact, they are quite useful for any field, including the arts. There is a strong link between people who go into sciences and medicine who are also great musicians. The best artists (the masters) have a good sense of geometry, symmetry, and timing. Art isn't about just putzing around, and I think the ancient Chinese realized that from day 1 in translating the elegance of design into their artworks. When I was younger I was really active in arts, music, and science but when I got older it seemed like for practical purposes I chose to go science/technology in my career. Musical/art talent isn't something you can practice and develop, though it is still fun to play. Art is okay if you do commercial graphics arts or 3D, but that's still not "fine art" as you would romanticize it - still highly technical!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gimme it View Post
Why don't you think children should have unstructured fun? What might happen if they did?
We were all children once. I know what I would want to do if my parents provided no structure. It would gravitate towards playing computer games, watching TV, listening to rock music, going to dance clubs with underage ID, building fires and doing other shenanigans where I'm not supposed to, hanging out with friends who do drugs, trying drugs, trying to be cool with the kids who did not do well. Any chance I got, pretty much. Thank goodness I had strict parents though I am sure I thought they were stupid. I am not saying all kids would be like this but most probably have gone through these phases. Getting stuck in the phase at a critical point in life ruins your chances. I'm pretty thankful now that they nagged me and punished me for going off the straight/narrow path -- hindsight is 20/20.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:48 AM
 
43,012 posts, read 88,978,939 times
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Three posts ago you said it was your final word.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:12 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,333,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post
We were all children once. I know what I would want to do if my parents provided no structure. It would gravitate towards playing computer games, watching TV, listening to rock music, going to dance clubs with underage ID, building fires and doing other shenanigans where I'm not supposed to, hanging out with friends who do drugs, trying drugs, trying to be cool with the kids who did not do well.
I cannot let this pass without comment. On the Strictness Scale of 1 to 10, 10 being supremely strict, my parents were a 10.5. Further background: I have a brother who was declared "gifted" in elementary school. And that brother spent his teen years (60's) listening to rock music, hanging out in clubs, playing guitar, I'm sure he smoked dope and I know for a fact he participated in "shenanigans".

But he also kept his grades up and my parents were smart enough to let him develop his interest in music and musicians. From the time he was 17 he made serious pin money working concerts. He was also making contacts that he's kept to this day and have helped make him very successful as a concert photographer/reviewer/writer. And I can name a bunch of his high school/university friends (who are still his friends today) and who have similar stories. They have names you would definitely recognize. Like if you walked into a bookstore. Or download on iTunes. Or read newspapers.

Sorry, I just go a little nuts when people equate rock music and clubs with having a less-than-successful life.

Dang. I've hung out in a few clubs myself, know a slew of musicians, and I think I turned out just fine.
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