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Well, another perspective, I grew up next to a family from China, the kids were scared of their Dad, who would literally beat them if they did not get straight A's in school. Those kids screamed, my Mom called CPS several times. Those kids had to study all the time, while we were out playing in the sun, riding bikes around the neighborhood, those kids were studying. Yes, they are successful now...but so am I...and no one ever beat me, and I had a balanced childhood.
While I obviously do not know these people (and who knows- maybe they blocked out the scars of their past and became very happy), I'm willing to bet that you were even MORE successful. Success does not just mean having a good job or making lots of money- it means doing something that you love and being happy.
I think it's good to pursue the highest goal that you can, but it's called obsession, crazy, and brainwashing when you want them to go to Ivy League schools and earn A+ from middle school throughout college and graduate. Do you think those grades will save them from depression? Probably not.
This article is appalling to me, particularly because I had many Asian friends growing up, and I saw the effects that these parenting techniques had on them. Sure, many of them became self-motivated, "successful," driven... but they thought so poorly of themselves. They really felt that they were worthless unless they got every part of every question right. I remember one of my friends crying because she missed part of an answer to a question, even though the teacher gave her full points. When I talked to her, I could tell that she felt she had failed as a person. Not just at the task, but as a human being. Her parents transferred their words to her. She had taken their words and now stated them as her own thoughts. She was worthless. She would never be successful.
I don't understand AT ALL the part in which Ms. Chua says that enjoyment of an activity stems from success at it. Obviously, every kid has different strengths and weaknesses. Does that mean that the kid shouldn't participate in a variety of activities?
Basically... happiness does not equal perfection. She is not being fair to her children and not allowing them life experience.
Now people, understand that article is mostly stereotype. Many Asian parents do not do that but are able to balance the happiness and laissez-faire of western ways with the high-expectation Eastern ways. You get some insufferable parents every now and then, but you pretty much get them in every culture. Better to have a parent drive you crazying doing homework than drive you crazy by being an alcoholic or getting divorced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
Is this why China is now passing legislation to force children to see their parents?
Article says no -- obviously you haven't read it. Maybe China doesn't want the kids treating their parents like they do here by stuffing them in old people's homes. "No one is reluctant to return home to visit parents," the Web user said, according to the Global Times. "But I often have to work at weekends, even during the official holidays."
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Yet -- why is China how it is? Why are the people so robotic that they accept their government? They seem to be very conformist, do whatever they're told.
And China has it's problems. Lots of pollution, high lead levels, drug addiction.
China has less drug addiction than here for sure. High lead levels and pollution in a rising industrial nation is probably govt exploitation of people in order to serve the american need for products. It has nothing to do with parenting skills! And finally the robotic/conformist Chinese person is just such a racist sterotype. Every person from China I've met is very politically sharp and opinionated. They just conform to high work ethics and dont' care too much about deviating from common fashions - which gives them the impression of being robots. But really, it's preferable to have somebody with those traits than the typical american conformist who tries to be cool with their wacked out fashions, weekend party lifestyle, and crappy work ethics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Those poor Chinese children that never learned the pleasure of watching ants, or laying on the ground watching clouds drift by. Never allowed to play freely a whole summer day, just being kids having fun and exploring on their own all the millions of things kids explore on their own. Chinese kids could never write a Tom Sawyer book, or even imagine life without the constant presence of mother telling them they must do nothing but practice practice practice.
Again, total sterotype. Chinese kids have time to do all that stuff. Strict as my parents were at times we had tons of time to play in the yard and to appreciate nature. And plenty of creativity came forth from my pen as I obtained awards in creative writing in high school. Yea, my mom said to "practice practice" and I rebelled at times, but it isn't as if I was brainwashed. I doubt American kids can have an easier time writing a Tom Sawyer book either, seeing how the illiteracy rate is high despite having graduated from high school. Success at math/music does not equate to lack of creativity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
Somehow, though, I don't think being happy is anywhere on that particular kind of Chinese mother's list of requirements for their children.
It sure didn't seem like that growing up, but after I matured I was able to see that this is 100% false.
Final word - I don't really like Amy Chua nor do I agree fully with her patting herself on the back hypocrisy parenting styles... frankly, she annoys me like many assertive perfectionist Asian women do.
But I think the best way is obviously to take the best of western and eastern parenting skills. I don't agree with the idea of letting your child have unstructured fun. I think work and talent development can actually be fun while being serious. I would totally let my kids do acting, play in rock band, write music, do art, travel, learn many languages, write. As long as they make the pre-requisite of learning their math and science. For sure then they won't be just another starving "actor/artist/musician" when their dreams don't pan out, LOL!
I definitely know some strict parents of this mold (some Chinese, some not) with kids who do NOT have time to enjoy nature. How could they, when their schedules are filled from early morning until late at night with school and scheduled activities? We rarely saw our former upstairs neighbors, as they were literally on the go ALL DAY, every day. While our neighbors were Chinese, the hyper-parenting model is certainly in existence for non-Chinese American parents, too, at least in some communities.
But I think the best way is obviously to take the best of western and eastern parenting skills. I don't agree with the idea of letting your child have unstructured fun. I think work and talent development can actually be fun while being serious. I would totally let my kids do acting, play in rock band, write music, do art, travel, learn many languages, write. As long as they make the pre-requisite of learning their math and science. For sure then they won't be just another starving "actor/artist/musician" when their dreams don't pan out, LOL!
Many artists love living their dreams. They aren't rich, but they aren't starving. It's sad you measure success only in terms of wealth.
It's such a shame that the focus is mostly on math and science and art and writing is considered a mere dream to you when China has a rich history in the arts.
We're all artsy-fartsy--writers and teachers and theater folk--in this house, so clearly my husband and I have failed both ourselves and our children. But we laugh. A lot. And we own oodles of pottery and paintings with our friends' names on them. And I've been crocheting scarf after scarf to help me handle the stress of my father's cancer. All useless things, I realize.
This article is appalling to me, particularly because I had many Asian friends growing up, and I saw the effects that these parenting techniques had on them. Sure, many of them became self-motivated, "successful," driven... but they thought so poorly of themselves. They really felt that they were worthless unless they got every part of every question right. I remember one of my friends crying because she missed part of an answer to a question, even though the teacher gave her full points. When I talked to her, I could tell that she felt she had failed as a person. Not just at the task, but as a human being. Her parents transferred their words to her. She had taken their words and now stated them as her own thoughts. She was worthless. She would never be successful.
I don't understand AT ALL the part in which Ms. Chua says that enjoyment of an activity stems from success at it. Obviously, every kid has different strengths and weaknesses. Does that mean that the kid shouldn't participate in a variety of activities?
Basically... happiness does not equal perfection. She is not being fair to her children and not allowing them life experience.
As far as "enjoyment of an activity stems from success at it..." I think she may have been referring to the idea that some things can be finally enjoyed, once you have put in the time and work and practice to become good at them. This is true with learning a musical instrument. At first it is a lot of work and not much fun...just practice, practice, practice with it not sounding so good. Then, finally it becomes fun as you master the instrument and you can actually play music for enjoyment. I have seen this with my children and their piano lessons. When they are learning a new song, it is not so much fun at first. But after much practice, it becomes easier and sounds better and they begin playing it not just because they have to, but because they want to. Its enjoyable. (Both for the child and for the parent's ears!)
I have a dear friend who is Asian and this article reminded me of her, but to a somewhat lesser extent. I think East and West both have something to offer and good parents will try and take the best from each.
Final word - I don't really like Amy Chua nor do I agree fully with her patting herself on the back hypocrisy parenting styles... frankly, she annoys me like many assertive perfectionist Asian women do.
But I think the best way is obviously to take the best of western and eastern parenting skills. I don't agree with the idea of letting your child have unstructured fun. I think work and talent development can actually be fun while being serious. I would totally let my kids do acting, play in rock band, write music, do art, travel, learn many languages, write. As long as they make the pre-requisite of learning their math and science. For sure then they won't be just another starving "actor/artist/musician" when their dreams don't pan out, LOL!
Why don't you think children should have unstructured fun? What might happen if they did?
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