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Old 01-19-2011, 10:07 AM
 
3,741 posts, read 2,917,286 times
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For heaven's sakes, it is not a stranger's home.

You read too much between the lines.

It is not the questioning of the posts. If some say "you know, bedtime is not that big a deal to me" for whatever reason, then fine....they are stating their position politely and with their reasons.


But so many people (I'm not saying you, necessarily), come on here with the line that "you are such a busybody" and "you are so judgmental" and accusing me of calling DFACS.... it is the harshness of some the answers that really gets to me.

BTW, if I thought I had some influence on the situtation, I would have said something by now. But I have no influence. I have to sit there and watch this poor little guy crying and sad. We try to help him, but it's his parents he wants, not us.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Heart of Oklahoma
1,173 posts, read 1,293,054 times
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I agree, it is important - but 8:30 for an 8 year old is pretty extreme. I have a four year old who goes down anywhere from 8:30 - 9. We have a strict routine for weekdays - homework, dinner, playtime, bath, bed all done no later than 9:00 pm. But, I personally think that the time should increase with age.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:51 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,325,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proudvoterofObama View Post
I agree, it is important - but 8:30 for an 8 year old is pretty extreme. I have a four year old who goes down anywhere from 8:30 - 9. We have a strict routine for weekdays - homework, dinner, playtime, bath, bed all done no later than 9:00 pm. But, I personally think that the time should increase with age.
It entirely depends on the family's dynamic and schedule. I had an 8:30 bedtime when I was 8. So did my children. My dad and my DH were in different industries but they both had to get up very early in the morning.

If my DH had a long-term project that was local it was pretty normal for him to have to be at work and on his game at 5:00am. (Sometimes earlier.) Which meant he and I went to bed early. Like 9pm. The kids schedules were adjusted for him. (And me if I was working.)
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:57 AM
 
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Interestingly, there is some research on sleep that shows that sleep needs are very individual. It is important to get enough sleep, but it is also apparently important not to get too much sleep. This link is for adults though.

How Much Sleep Do We Really Need? | National Sleep Foundation - Information on Sleep Health and Safety

Quote:
The first thing experts will tell you about sleep is that there is no "magic number." Not only do different age groups need different amounts of sleep, but sleep needs are also individual. Just like any other characteristics you are born with, the amount of sleep you need to function best may be different for you than for someone who is of the same age and gender. While you may be at your absolute best sleeping seven hours a night, someone else may clearly need nine hours to have a happy, productive life. In fact, a 2005 study confirmed the fact that sleep needs vary across populations, and the study calls for further research to identify traits within genes that may provide a "map" to explain how sleep needs differ among individuals.
This one is for children
All About Sleep

Quote:
How Much Is Enough?
It all depends on a child's age. Charts that list the hours of sleep likely to be required by an infant or a 2-year-old may cause concern when individual differences aren't considered. These numbers are simply averages reported for large groups of kids of particular ages.

There's no magical number of hours required by all kids in a certain age group. Two-year-old Sarah might sleep from 8:00 PM to 8:00 AM, whereas 2-year-old Johnny is just as alert the next day after sleeping from 9:00 PM to 6:00 AM.
My son was one of those babies who did not sleep so much as an infant, but who was quite content. He certainly did not sleep 16 to 20 hours a day between 6 weeks and 4 months old, but his sleep became more regulated as he got older.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:22 PM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,711,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Interestingly, there is some research on sleep that shows that sleep needs are very individual.
I find this to be very true in my family. My 3 kids are different.

My oldest (16) needs a lot of sleep and takes what he needs. He did not have a lot of homework last night and was in bed by 9, asleep by 10. He was tired. We don't impose a bedtime on him. He was up at 6:45 whining about how early he has to get up for school.

My youngest son does not need as much sleep. On Tuesdays he goes to a wrestling practice that is an hour from here with one of the coaches. He got home around 9 (already fed), did his homework and went to watch tv in his room. He turned his tv off at 10 and when he got up this morning he was chipper and happy (very irritating to his brother).

They're just different kids. They have different needs.
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I agree with John Rosemond. So it's up to whatever works for the family. A 2 or 3 year old will fall asleep when he's sleepy and if the family likes to stay up late and the child falls asleep on the couch with them, it's really no big deal. If they don't sleep enough at night, then they'll take longer naps and maybe that's what works out for everyone. Kids in day care might prefer to take long naps and then stay up late with the parents in the evening.

Once kids are in school, if they have to get up by 6 am or so, they'll be tired enough to go to bed early on their own, if no big deal is ever made of bedtime, they just go to bed when they're tired and bedtime isn't an issue, nothing to fight against if it's never made into anything.

Really kids will turn out okay either way - it also doesn't hurt them to have some down time in their own rooms, reading books or playing and talking with siblings.
...eventually maybe. Haven't you ever seen an over tired toddler? There is all kinds of crankiness that can go on before the child falls asleep. My kids wake up at the same time of the morning no matter what time they go to sleep so they wouldn't get enough sleep if I let them stay up until all hours like the situation below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
I am not at their house. We are all at someone else's house. Believe me, the mom has not exhausted herself from entertaining us.

No, it is no skin off my nose. I would not say anything to the parents.

I happen to feel badly for the 3 year old, exhausted and not knowing what to do with himself late at night, and NO PARENT around to help him go to bed.

Why is that judgmental?

And no, it is not about the SPECIFIC hour. It is about the fact the child obviously is not getting enough sleep, has melt downs all day long, cries at the drop of the hat, dozes off for 5 minutes during the day whatever chance he gets.

This to me does not sound like an optimally healthy situation. And why do I care? Well, geez, I guess because it makes me sad to see it.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
...eventually maybe. Haven't you ever seen an over tired toddler? There is all kinds of crankiness that can go on before the child falls asleep. My kids wake up at the same time of the morning no matter what time they go to sleep so they wouldn't get enough sleep if I let them stay up until all hours like the situation below.

This is true in our family and is true in the other families as well (it is more than one family BTW; I believe that detail was overlooked....which makes me wonder, is this a trend or something?)

You know, for all those out there who are jumping down my throat for being judgmental and for not having a "live and let live" attitude, it occurs to me that part of the reason I feel sadness about this is because--

1) the child is overtired and acts accordingly. Life would be easier for both the parents and the child if the child were getting enough sleep.

2) if the parents had established a bedtime routine, if they had invested the time in that early on, things would be so much easier for them now. Our kids never complain about going to bed--they look forward to the stories and songs and cuddles. These other kids I know, scream bloody murder about going to bed even when carried up from the sofa at midnight. I mean, how icky to have to go through that every night.

The Brits have a saying: "Start as you mean to go on." It would be a walk in the park now if they had started it at 2 months old (or whenever).

Last edited by calgirlinnc; 01-19-2011 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
We are big on "bedtime" at our house....our kids, 8 and 4, are in bed with lights off by 8:30, sometimes by 8:00 on school nights. John Rosemond writes that bedtimes are for parents as much as anything, and I agree...it is nice to have "grown-up" time in the evenings.

Also, our children wake up for school easily, are less cranky, and look and act refreshed when they get a solid 11 or 12 hours of sleep a night.

On Friday nights, or on extreme occasions (trips to Disney, for example) we let them stay up a little later...9:30 is the latest I can recall.


But over the course of the last six months, I have witnessed numerous times (*not special events*) when children at the age of 3 are up until 11:00 or even later. These same childen wake up around 6:30 so that is not a lot of sleep.

The parents just do not put the children to bed. The mother goes to bed herself around 9:30 or 10:00 and just lets the kids stay up. The mother will take afternoon naps so that she can stay up that late with the kids, so she tells me.

After the mom goes to bed, the dad just lets them wrestle around or fall asleep watching TV. Once we were with them and it was 10:45 and the 3 year old was crying and lying on the floor trying to go to sleep. My DH ended up putting him to bed.

And the kids do not seem to handle it well...they are cranky and fussy during the day (especially the 3 year old....the 5 year old is a little better)...they fall asleep in the car on the way home from school, etc.

It just makes me SO sad. Why can't they put the kids to bed at a regular hour? And why do they let them drink diet soda? But that's another thread....
In the case of my young niece, her mom doesn't get off of work until 11pm sometimes. My mom tries to keep her up until her mom gets off of work so that my niece will fall asleep when she gets home (as opposed to napping at my moms and being up all night when my niece gets home). My mom wants her to have a routine sleeping pattern.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:37 PM
 
Location: THE USA
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Yep. I think it makes a world of difference. We put them to bed between 7-8 varying with their age. If we get past 8 it gets ugly in the morning.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:21 PM
 
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I remember my parents making me go to bed at 9 pm until 7th or 8th grade. Their parenting has done me well b/c now unlike other college students, I go to bed at 1 am instead of 3.
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