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Old 01-24-2011, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,737 posts, read 5,235,160 times
Reputation: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucygirl951 View Post
It means that not everything needs to be seen as a condition that should be treated. It means that it's perfectly good parenting to just send our kids, "gifted" or not, to public school for circle time and spelling bees and holiday pageants. It means that we don't have to spend every moment of every day worrying about every tiny little thought or emotion that our children might have.
One more thing, if public school where I am was circle time, spelling bees, and holiday pageants that would be FABULOUS. But it's not. We've got worksheet after worksheet of simple math drills so that everyone passes the TAKS. They have dumbed down the curriculum so that no child is left behind. And it is boring and repetitive and boring....
I won't subject my kid to it. I don't want him turned off from learning.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,737 posts, read 5,235,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOhioBound View Post
Depressed and anxious in elementary?! Something else is going on and it has little or nothing to do with education

Also, if I was in your shoes and was so against the public school systems and was a member of MENSA, I would just home school my kid. I mean, wouldn't that make more sense?
I am (I've stated as much in a post upthread - since last March) But next year we are doing Montessori because I think real learning happens in groups.

I took him to a child pych over the depression and anxiety - his conclusion - lack of intellectual challenge. Since we took him out of school and he works at his own pace he is much happier and no longer has the anxiety.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:17 PM
 
852 posts, read 679,131 times
Reputation: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
It kind of sounds like you are equating concern over a child's education with micromanagement. That's simply not accurate.

My kid never had problems in class, he was very well behaved. He would break down in tears when I picked him up from school because he was so bored and lonely. He didn't have that problem when he was in the APP. I took him out of the situation because I didn't feel like putting him on antidepressants.

Well, that's the great thing about this country. We are each entitled to raise our children as we see fit. You are entitled to your opinions and I am mine.

We've only been educating kids the way we do today for the past 100 years or so. We didn't evolve learning in classroom setting. It works for some kids not for others.
There is a such thing as too much concern. There is something to be said for providing the child with the tools to figure out how to fit into the environment. When I read your posts, it seems to me that you've found a paradigm to fit your experience. I hear these same things all the time, practically word for word.

The problem with that paradigm is that it doesn't consider the shift from hunting and gathering to agrarian to industrial culture, which is paramount when viewing educational evolution. Were we better off when children were dying in farming accidents? Or were the good old days when we were communicating in pictography? Exactly why is the evolution argument relevant in a discussion of current public education? There are indictments to be made of public education, for sure, but indictments could also be made of parochial, Montessori, or home schooling too. But there is one constant. Sooner or later it comes down to the student and the material, so regardless of the environment, either the learner develops the independent tools for learning or he/she doesn't.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:21 PM
 
852 posts, read 679,131 times
Reputation: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
One more thing, if public school where I am was circle time, spelling bees, and holiday pageants that would be FABULOUS. But it's not. We've got worksheet after worksheet of simple math drills so that everyone passes the TAKS. They have dumbed down the curriculum so that no child is left behind. And it is boring and repetitive and boring....
I won't subject my kid to it. I don't want him turned off from learning.
Oh yes, we can't forget the worksheet after worksheet and dumbing down points. Again, I hear them over and over. What you're really saying is "my child is better than these people." It's loud and clear.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
11,953 posts, read 5,594,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
Am I supposed to hide that? Should I be ashamed? The other poster with whom I was arguing claimed to be gifted herself. Did you note the context I used it in? I was saying big deal, I do well at pattern matching tests. That's all you need to test for a high IQ.
The difference is you seem to be making this your identity. It's quite sad. It's not that I don't have a bright/gifted kid, it's that is not what defines him or me. My son was asked to test out for the advanced classes, I declined. It would mean much more homework, and more pressure. He can take AP classes in middle school, but for now I'd rather he play sport, join the drama club, play with his friends, play with his other firends, and just be a kid. We can spend the time gardening together, going for hikes, cooking, watching movies, going to museums, learning a language, playing chess. There are many different ways to learn and expand minds without fixating on the minute by minute progress of classroom education. Lighten up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
Frankly, it is likely my kid learns faster than yours.
Doubtful, but so what. Let's compare notes in 50 years and see then.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,990 posts, read 5,070,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOhioBound View Post
IMHO, smart/brilliant, whatever term you want to use, children still need to be given the tools to figure things out (how to do basic math, art, ect) Those gifted kids have it in them and do not need anyone to show them how to even begin to do those things (math, art, science, whatever) they just do it and excel at it.

There IS a difference between being gifted and being intelligent/brilliant/smart. Gifted people are very few and far in between. And they generally do not talk about how gifted they are, or even at all. Smart/intelligent people love to let others know how smart/intelligent they are though.
Okay....LOL, stepping in here! The highlighted text above? Soooo not true! You can have an extremely "gifted" child in a classroom of students and that child can be doing poorly....sitting there wanting to cry, because they have no clue what that instructor is saying. The more the teacher explains it, writes it out on the board, the more confused that child becomes....to the point of complete hopelessness. The issue is not that the child is stupid or learning impaird. The problem is this....the instructor is teaching in a style which is completely contradictory to how that child's brain processes information!

Let's take story problems for instance. Some students can read a story problem and be completely lost. Give the information from the "bottom up", and those very same students may have a "lightbulb" moment. Quite often, a student who is completely lost during class discussion and lectures on algebra, are completely lost because the instructor is doing the problem "backward"...as far as they're concerned. Those students think they're stupid and just don't get it...but nothing could be further from the truth. The instructor is listing the materials "backward/wrong", therefore those student's minds cannot comprehend it. Many incredibly gifted people have brains which process information completely different (left right vs right to left, some front to back, etc) these are just examples...I'm not going to hunt down information to cite here, but please do look it up. It's completely fascinating ...truly. It goes way beyond the visual/spatial learning stuff. Far less students are "stupid/lazy" that folks would ever imagine. They are simply sitting in classrooms with instructors who teach the way THEY think.....not the way the "stupid/lazy" students think!

It is unfortunate for these students, who slide through school, barely passing, only to get into high school, hopelessly failing, thinking they just CAN'T learn. If only we were able to provide multiple teaching "styles", there would not be so many "left behind". Alas, it is often the poor who suffer. The wealthier families are able to afford these specialized schools who cater to these brilliant and unique thinkers.

Last edited by beachmel; 01-24-2011 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:52 PM
 
852 posts, read 679,131 times
Reputation: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
It's quite sad. It's not that I don't have a bright/gifted kid, it's that is not what defines him or me. My son was asked to test out for the advanced classes, I declined. It would mean much more homework, and more pressure. He can take AP classes in middle school, but for now I'd rather he play sport, join the drama club, play with his friends, play with his other firends, and just be a kid. We can spend the time gardening together, going for hikes, cooking, watching movies, going to museums, learning a language, playing chess. There are many different ways to learn and expand minds without fixating on the minute by minute progress of classroom education. Lighten up.
This. Right here. My sister also recently pulled her son out of gifted math (8th grade). Three hours of homework a night for just one subject was enough for both of them. My nephew is scary smart, but he's also got so many other interests. He's a skilled artist with a passion for manga, he makes videos, he reads voraciously, and, he likes to spend time with his group of friends.

This education fixation is no different from the pageant moms or the dad who makes his son run football drills over and over. It seems more purposeful because it's about education, but in the end, it's still a parent saying to a child "this is who you are, and so we are going to make you that. Whatever the cost."

Re: the bolded sentence. I couldn't have come up with the words to make the point so succinctly. Yes. That. Absolutely.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,737 posts, read 5,235,160 times
Reputation: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucygirl951 View Post
Oh yes, we can't forget the worksheet after worksheet and dumbing down points. Again, I hear them over and over. What you're really saying is "my child is better than these people." It's loud and clear.
That's not what I am saying, what I am saying is that most students don't do well with these worksheets. It is a flawed way of teaching children. We now have approximately 10% of kids on ritalin according to some reports. That is saying that 10% of children have a mental defect because they don't function well in traditional schooling. Maybe it's time to look at traditional schooling and see where its failing all of these kids.

Your last comment is really second guessing. I've never stated that. I've never implied that. In fact, in an earlier post I even said just because my son learns faster than most does NOT make him any better or more deserving than any other person's child. What your posts are saying to me is that you lack imagination. Please don't put words in my mouth and I won't put words in yours.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,737 posts, read 5,235,160 times
Reputation: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
The difference is you seem to be making this your identity. It's quite sad. It's not that I don't have a bright/gifted kid, it's that is not what defines him or me. My son was asked to test out for the advanced classes, I declined. It would mean much more homework, and more pressure. He can take AP classes in middle school, but for now I'd rather he play sport, join the drama club, play with his friends, play with his other firends, and just be a kid. We can spend the time gardening together, going for hikes, cooking, watching movies, going to museums, learning a language, playing chess. There are many different ways to learn and expand minds without fixating on the minute by minute progress of classroom education. Lighten up.
Ok, let's put this all into perspective. We are on a thread that is specifically discussing this topic. That is why it is coming up. I don't typically go around discussing this type of stuff.

My son studies about three hours a day total in our homeschooling environment. I don't like the whole AP system, it doesn't allow kids to be kids because it piles on the work. I am getting the sense that you haven't really read any of my other posts. I don't fixate on minute by minute education in a classroom, I don't have to, I took him out. Now he has time to build legos, to participate in community theater, he's even worked on a couple of films.

It seems like an awful lot of people here, instead of reading the posts in the context of this entire conversation, have jumped in and latched on to individual lines, and decided "you think you have a gifted kid, I've got your number, you're one of the hot-housing parents that micromanages" when in fact I am completely the opposite.


Doubtful, but so what. Let's compare notes in 50 years and see then.
Ok, let's put this all into perspective. We are on a thread that is specifically discussing this topic. That is why it is coming up. I don't typically go around discussing this type of stuff. It's not something that permeates our lives.

My son studies about three hours a day total in our homeschooling environment. I don't like the whole AP system, it doesn't allow kids to be kids because it piles on the work. I am getting the sense that you haven't really read any of my other posts. I don't fixate on minute by minute education in a classroom, I don't have to, I took him out. Now he has time to build legos, to participate in community theater, do volunteer work, spend afternoons at the art museum. He's even worked on a couple of films.

It seems like an awful lot of people here, instead of reading the posts in the context of this entire conversation, have jumped in and latched on to individual lines, and decided "you think you have a gifted kid, I've got your number, you're one of the hot-housing parents that micromanages" when in fact I am completely the opposite.

I'm not really interested in comparing in fifty years time because 1) I will likely be dead and 2) my son gets to live his life the way he wants and he will become what fulfills him - maybe that won't include going to college. I hope he chooses to, because it will likely lead to more opportunity. The most I hope for in the next fifty years is that he is happy, productive, and responsible.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,737 posts, read 5,235,160 times
Reputation: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucygirl951 View Post
This. Right here. My sister also recently pulled her son out of gifted math (8th grade). Three hours of homework a night for just one subject was enough for both of them. My nephew is scary smart, but he's also got so many other interests. He's a skilled artist with a passion for manga, he makes videos, he reads voraciously, and, he likes to spend time with his group of friends.

This education fixation is no different from the pageant moms or the dad who makes his son run football drills over and over. It seems more purposeful because it's about education, but in the end, it's still a parent saying to a child "this is who you are, and so we are going to make you that. Whatever the cost."

Re: the bolded sentence. I couldn't have come up with the words to make the point so succinctly. Yes. That. Absolutely.
You guys are seriously not reading what I am writing AT ALL. You have your minds made up. You can look at any other thread I've posted on regarding education and you will see that I think I think there is too much pressure on kids in the academic arena.

My saying that the education system today not working for many kids does not make me "fixated" on education. It does not make me a pageant mom. I am not sure if you implying that about me or this is just a general statement.

When the kiddo was in APP he had about 10 minutes of homework a night. We moved to TX and he ended up having an hour a night in elementary school. Please read the link about the APP that I posted earlier. It was program about teaching differently, not piling on the work.

Really, it's fine if people don't agree with me on some of these things, but please at least address things I am actually writing.
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