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One thing that I have observed from teaching that the college level for 16 years is that students who attend public and parochial schools are far more prepared for the rigors of academia than those who are home schooled or who attended Montessori.
How interesting.
I have been teaching at the college level since 1990 and I have witnessed just the opposite.
It is difficult to find evidence regarding Montessori success at the high school level, as it is only now that Montessori principles of education are being applied to the high school level.
However, anecdotal evidence as well as countless research studies demonstrate that Montessori students are better prepared for upper levels than their public or private school counterparts and in fact outperform them.
I think we can all agree that a child's behavior in the classroom in terms of being disrespectful or defiant brokers no excuses.
________
Having said that, I find the comments directed toward one of the posters here that she is elitist highly distressing.
Her son, from what we are told, is exceptionally intelligent. I have no problem with the term "gifted". Exceptional intelligence IS a gift, as is beauty, as is musical/athletic/artistic talent, although we are not discussing those.
To say otherwise is to show your own prejudices.
What is wrong with acknowledging that some members of our society, yes even children, are exceptional?
Of my two children, one is gifted, while the other is probably just highly intelligent (she is only 4...not having her tested or anything). I want the SAME THING for my two different children...that they can be in the best school they can be in, that they live up to their potential, that they are happy, productive members of society.
I doubt this is much different from what you want for your own children.
It is true that I do not define my gifted DS only or even primarily as "gifted". First and foremost, he is my child, and I love him no matter how smart or not he is. I like to spend time with him, I try to teach him right from wrong, etc. I do not constantly tell him how smart he is anymore than I tell him anything else. The fact is, this is what is normal for OUR family.
This is probably not too different from what you do for your own children.
But when gifted children enter a traditional school, it is sometimes painfully obvious that a traditional education is not what is best for that child.
Jennifer is completely right about the work level. If you have a child who can do advanced math, why is that same child still doing single digit addition in 2nd grade? (or 1st grade, as was the case with my DS). If you have a child who can make connections at lightning speed, who has a photographic memory (as does my DS), who can discuss politics and physics alike at the age of 8, who has an insatiable curiousity and a highly developed imagination...
Should not those things be celebrated? Should they not be encouraged? Should they not be enhanced?
Oh, right, I forgot, that's elitist.
The fact is, children who are this bright ARE different, they ARE unique, they DO have different needs. Not all of the those needs are good ones, BTW. My son has delays in fine motor skills and sensory processing. Someone upthread posted about how gifted children have brains that are wired differently and that is true. Imagine how frustrating it can be to understand long division at age 5 or 6 but have problem holding a pencil correctly. Kids in this group often have an enormous gap between their intelligence and their skill level, which can be incredibly hard to handle.
If you put this on the other end of the spectrum, and say you have an intelligently-challenged child who needs a special school program, that would be OK, because you wouldn't be saying your child is better than anyone else's.
I read somewhere that having a child who is gifted is akin to having a child who is special needs, only on the other end of the spectrum. The point was that traditional "one size fits all" education may not suit their needs or capabilities.
This is not elitist. It is true.
And why should we expect traditional American education to be a one-size fits all model?
And if someone thought that their child was a great gymnast, for example, and wanted to put DC in an elite Olympic bound training program, would you criticize that parent and say she was being elitist and thought her DC was better than anyone else's? Of course not. You would say, cool, your child has a special talent and you are doing a great job as a parent in fostering that talent.
It is no different.
BTW, to the poster upthread who doubted you could know at age 7 if a child was exceptionally intelligent, of course you can. We knew our DS was gifted by age of 18 months. But I won't bore you with what he could do and what he knew....I don't want to be accused of being proud of who God made him.
As far as "wealthy" parents being the only ones who can afford special schools fo their children, goodness knows we are far from wealthy. We make a lot of sacrifices so our son can attend a private school. You should not judge people like that, especially when you don't know the whole story.
Last edited by calgirlinnc; 01-25-2011 at 11:21 AM..
Thanks! I appreciate someone actually READING what I am writing and not jumping to all sorts of conclusions about my motives. I don't really think my kid is in any kind of cosmic competition to be 'best kid' Kids have different talents and strengths and it's a big world that needs all kinds of people. All of their talents should be nurtured and valued.
Look, you know your kids better than anyone. No one is saying your children are not bright, gifted or whatever. This forum consists of a wide variety of parents in different phases of parenting, one thing we have collectively is experience. Sorry to sound so cynical, but I have heard it all before, especially when kids are very young. It just doesn't mean much in very young kids. There is so much more to education than IQ, test scores, book smarts, call it whatever you want. I have seen so many young children crash and burn because they are bright and have been pushed, and pushed too fast too far. One of my sons friends had gastric ulcers worrying about disappointing his parents. You can get defensive and crititicize me all you want. All of us only want what is best for our children, and honestly all I want is what is best for your children too. Just calm down, take a deep breath, realize we are not trying to assassinate your characters, but we do have a clue, we have been in similar positions. There are many ways to augment education. Odyssey of the Mind and Destination Imagination are two excellent programs that spring to mind. If they aren't in your schools, start them. If I come off sounding harsh, I apologize, but your children are very young, there are many fun ways to keep bright children engaged, and let them have some fun too.
I think we can all agree that a child's behavior in the classroom in terms of being disrespectful or defiant brokers no excuses.
________
Having said that, I find the comments directed toward one of the posters here that she is elitist highly distressing.
Her son, from what we are told, is exceptionally intelligent. I have no problem with the term "gifted". Exceptional intelligence IS a gift, as is beauty, as is musical/athletic/artistic talent, although we are not discussing those.
To say otherwise is to show your own prejudices.
What is wrong with acknowledging that some members of our society, yes even children, are exceptional?
Of my two children, one is gifted, while the other is probably just highly intelligent (she is only 4...not having her tested or anything). I want the SAME THING for my two different children...that they can be in the best school they can be in, that they live up to their potential, that they are happy, productive members of society.
I doubt this is much different from what you want for your own children.
It is true that I do not define my gifted DS only or even primarily as "gifted". First and foremost, he is my child, and I love him no matter how smart or not he is. I like to spend time with him, I try to teach him right from wrong, etc. I do not constantly tell him how smart he is anymore than I tell him anything else. The fact is, this is what is normal for OUR family.
This is probably not too different from what you do for your own children.
But when gifted children enter a traditional school, it is sometimes painfully obvious that a traditional education is not what is best for that child.
Jennifer is completely right about the work level. If you have a child who can do advanced math, why is that same child still doing single digit addition in 2nd grade? (or 1st grade, as was the case with my DS). If you have a child who can make connections at lightning speed, who has a photographic memory (as does my DS), who can discuss politics and physics alike at the age of 8, who has an insatiable curiousity and a highly developed imagination...
Should not those things be celebrated? Should they not be encouraged? Should they not be enhanced?
Oh, right, I forgot, that's elitist.
The fact is, children who are this bright ARE different, they ARE unique, they DO have different needs. Not all of the those needs are good ones, BTW. My son has delays in fine motor skills and sensory processing. Someone upthread posted about how gifted children have brains that are wired differently and that is true. Imagine how frustrating it can be to understand long division at age 5 or 6 but have problem holding a pencil correctly. Kids in this group often have an enormous gap between their intelligence and their skill level, which can be incredibly hard to handle.
If you put this on the other end of the spectrum, and say you have an intelligently-challenged child who needs a special school program, that would be OK, because you wouldn't be saying your child is better than anyone else's.
I read somewhere that having a child who is gifted is akin to having a child who is special needs, only on the other end of the spectrum. The point was that traditional "one size fits all" education may not suit their needs or capabilities.
This is not elitist. It is true.
And why should we expect traditional American education to be a one-size fits all model?
And if someone thought that their child was a great gymnast, for example, and wanted to put DC in an elite Olympic bound training program, would you criticize that parent and say she was being elitist and thought her DC was better than anyone else's? Of course not. You would say, cool, your child has a special talent and you are doing a great job as a parent in fostering that talent.
It is no different.
BTW, to the poster upthread who doubted you could know at age 7 if a child was exceptionally intelligent, of course you can. We knew our DS was gifted by age of 18 months. But I won't bore you with what he could do and what he knew....I don't want to be accused of being proud of who God made him.
As far as "wealthy" parents being the only ones who can afford special schools fo their children, goodness knows we are far from wealthy. We make a lot of sacrifices so our son can attend a private school. You should not judge people like that, especially when you don't know the whole story.
The problem here and the point I think we are discussing is that people are using "gifted" as an excuse. If my daughter was a world class gymnast and she walked across a room and tripped I wouldn't say - My daughter is a world class gymnast - the room must have a problem. The floors must be uneven and the lighting too dark. She would never just trip over her own two feet.
This is the same thing on an educational level. This child's behavior is in question and because he's gifted it can't be blamed on him. It must be the school or the techer or the curriculum...
I think we can all agree that a child's behavior in the classroom in terms of being disrespectful or defiant brokers no excuses.
________
Having said that, I find the comments directed toward one of the posters here that she is elitist highly distressing.
Her son, from what we are told, is exceptionally intelligent. I have no problem with the term "gifted". Exceptional intelligence IS a gift, as is beauty, as is musical/athletic/artistic talent, although we are not discussing those.
To say otherwise is to show your own prejudices.
What is wrong with acknowledging that some members of our society, yes even children, are exceptional?
Of my two children, one is gifted, while the other is probably just highly intelligent (she is only 4...not having her tested or anything). I want the SAME THING for my two different children...that they can be in the best school they can be in, that they live up to their potential, that they are happy, productive members of society.
I doubt this is much different from what you want for your own children.
It is true that I do not define my gifted DS only or even primarily as "gifted". First and foremost, he is my child, and I love him no matter how smart or not he is. I like to spend time with him, I try to teach him right from wrong, etc. I do not constantly tell him how smart he is anymore than I tell him anything else. The fact is, this is what is normal for OUR family.
This is probably not too different from what you do for your own children.
But when gifted children enter a traditional school, it is sometimes painfully obvious that a traditional education is not what is best for that child.
Jennifer is completely right about the work level. If you have a child who can do advanced math, why is that same child still doing single digit addition in 2nd grade? (or 1st grade, as was the case with my DS). If you have a child who can make connections at lightning speed, who has a photographic memory (as does my DS), who can discuss politics and physics alike at the age of 8, who has an insatiable curiousity and a highly developed imagination...
Should not those things be celebrated? Should they not be encouraged? Should they not be enhanced?
Oh, right, I forgot, that's elitist.
The fact is, children who are this bright ARE different, they ARE unique, they DO have different needs. Not all of the those needs are good ones, BTW. My son has delays in fine motor skills and sensory processing. Someone upthread posted about how gifted children have brains that are wired differently and that is true. Imagine how frustrating it can be to understand long division at age 5 or 6 but have problem holding a pencil correctly. Kids in this group often have an enormous gap between their intelligence and their skill level, which can be incredibly hard to handle.
If you put this on the other end of the spectrum, and say you have an intelligently-challenged child who needs a special school program, that would be OK, because you wouldn't be saying your child is better than anyone else's.
I read somewhere that having a child who is gifted is akin to having a child who is special needs, only on the other end of the spectrum. The point was that traditional "one size fits all" education may not suit their needs or capabilities.
This is not elitist. It is true.
And why should we expect traditional American education to be a one-size fits all model?
And if someone thought that their child was a great gymnast, for example, and wanted to put DC in an elite Olympic bound training program, would you criticize that parent and say she was being elitist and thought her DC was better than anyone else's? Of course not. You would say, cool, your child has a special talent and you are doing a great job as a parent in fostering that talent.
It is no different.
BTW, to the poster upthread who doubted you could know at age 7 if a child was exceptionally intelligent, of course you can. We knew our DS was gifted by age of 18 months. But I won't bore you with what he could do and what he knew....I don't want to be accused of being proud of who God made him.
As far as "wealthy" parents being the only ones who can afford special schools fo their children, goodness knows we are far from wealthy. We make a lot of sacrifices so our son can attend a private school. You should not judge people like that, especially when you don't know the whole story.
Oh how I appreciate this post! Thanks Cal! Also, I agree with you on Jenn making a statement about her intelligence. I have also been attacked for making such statments and it really gets me....why can some people NOT understand that for many people...it's a simple statement, it is NOT bragging. For some, it's mere gratefulness. It also does NOT mean, that "giftedness" does not carry some negative repurcussions. I think the fact that Jenn was sneered at for her comment on her and her son's giftedness is a perfect example of that.
For the record though, I meant no disrespect and probably could have stated my point a bit more clearly on "only wealthy being able to afford specialized education for their kids". What I truly meant to convey is this.....Much of society looks down upon the "poor" as being less intelligent. That is not necessarily true. There are so very many living in abject poverty who are brilliant! Absolutely brilliant, gifted people. Most will never realize their true potential, especially when they're young, because their parents can not send these children to the same schools as those with the income to do so. I praise you for the sacrifices you make for your children, I really do. Unfortunately, so many of the parents out there have "nothing to sacrifice". I hope I'm making myself clear, without sounding judgemental.
Also, Cal, thanks for the reference to my post regarding the "different wiring" of individuals' brains. It is so nice to know that someone was paying attention. I have found that the concept is difficult for some to grasp. One size does not fit all. One teaching style does not work for everyone. My heart breaks over these truly brilliant and gifted children who are not succeeding in schools and are thought to be learning disabled, when it is only because the instructors are not teaching in the way that the child processes information. It's like saying, "That door has a lock. I have a key. Therefore, I can unlock the door. If the key was not made for THAT lock, you can NOT open the door......it therefore, remains locked and anything behind that door is unavailable to you!"
The problem here and the point I think we are discussing is that people are using "gifted" as an excuse. If my daughter was a world class gymnast and she walked across a room and tripped I wouldn't say - My daughter is a world class gymnast - the room must have a problem. The floors must be uneven and the lighting too dark. She would never just trip over her own two feet.
This is the same thing on an educational level. This child's behavior is in question and because he's gifted it can't be blamed on him. It must be the school or the techer or the curriculum...
Actually, I think most of us have agreed. All children, gifted/intelliegent or otherwise should be expected to behave and have manners. All children should be expected to be considerate and learn to restrain their behavior. To do otherwise, is putting themselves before all others. It is unacceptable behavior and if a child is truly intelligent, well....that concept should be quite easy for them to grasp, shouldn't it?
The problem here and the point I think we are discussing is that people are using "gifted" as an excuse.
This is the same thing on an educational level. This child's behavior is in question and because he's gifted it can't be blamed on him. It must be the school or the techer or the curriculum...
Did you not read the very first sentence of my post????
The only poster who is using that as an excuse is the OP, and she isn't even around anymore....not that I blame her.
For the record though, I meant no disrespect and probably could have stated my point a bit more clearly on "only wealthy being able to afford specialized education for their kids". What I truly meant to convey is this.....Much of society looks down upon the "poor" as being less intelligent. That is not necessarily true. There are so very many living in abject poverty who are brilliant! Absolutely brilliant, gifted people. Most will never realize their true potential, especially when they're young, because their parents can not send these children to the same schools as those with the income to do so. I praise you for the sacrifices you make for your children, I really do. Unfortunately, so many of the parents out there have "nothing to sacrifice". I hope I'm making myself clear, without sounding judgemental.
Also, Cal, thanks for the reference to my post regarding the "different wiring" of individuals' brains. It is so nice to know that someone was paying attention. I have found that the concept is difficult for some to grasp. One size does not fit all. One teaching style does not work for everyone. My heart breaks over these truly brilliant and gifted children who are not succeeding in schools and are thought to be learning disabled, when it is only because the instructors are not teaching in the way that the child processes information. It's like saying, "That door has a lock. I have a key. Therefore, I can unlock the door. If the key was not made for THAT lock, you can NOT open the door......it therefore, remains locked and anything behind that door is unavailable to you!"
Well you are welcome and I agree. You really get it.
I have been thinking about other countries like Germany and Japan that identify children's different skills and talents at an early age and send them to the appropriate education for those skills and talents. In other leading nations, children actually WANT to excel and achieve and be known as the smartest. Here, those kids are called nerds and geeks.
The wrong educational environment can be completely detrimental to a child, gifted or not. I have seen this, unfortunately, first hand. My son was in a private school that emphasized rote memorization, handwriting, worksheets, doing EVERYTHING as a group. When he would finish a math worksheet early, he was not allowed to do anything else, like draw or read but had to sit completely still with his hands clasped. At the same time, he was not doing well on spelling tests because he could not write the words fast enough, so he would leave the words half done. The teacher told me to medicate him for ADHD.
We withdrew so fast it would make your head spin. He is NOT ADHD. (I do agree that is overdone because teachers don't want to deal with anyone who does not fit into their box).
I love your description about the lock and key. That is how we knew his current school would be a better fit. The teacher used an example of how we are all trees, but all made out of different types of wood....some might make good furniture, some might make good fences, or whatever. I think my DS is visual-spatial....also I'm going to research what you mentioned before.
Public education, with these evaluative tests, are all about making sure children know X, Y, Z, at the expense of creative and independent thinking.
Also I know what you mean about the poor who do not have opportunities....but they still probably have more opportunity here than in many other countries. They have to work harder...it won't be handed to them, that's for sure....but it can be done. Look at Condeleeza Rice, for example. BTW, Beachmel, it wasn't you, it was Lucygirl who wrote about that only being available to those of wealth and privilege.
Last edited by calgirlinnc; 01-25-2011 at 01:42 PM..
There are many ways to augment education. Odyssey of the Mind and Destination Imagination are two excellent programs that spring to mind. If they aren't in your schools, start them. If I come off sounding harsh, I apologize, but your children are very young, there are many fun ways to keep bright children engaged, and let them have some fun too.
I will look into these programs....thanks.
But why do you think we are opposed to letting our kids have fun?
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It's like saying, "That door has a lock. I have a key. Therefore, I can unlock the door. If the key was not made for THAT lock, you can NOT open the door......it therefore, remains locked and anything behind that door is unavailable to you!" 
