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Old 01-22-2011, 02:59 PM
 
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IQ is one measurement of intelligence, and the standard test used in schools these days, the Stanford Binet, can have a 15 point deviation. So someone who tests with an IQ of 135 could actually have an IQ of 125 or 150. In other words, it's just a number. Unless we're dealing with the really low or really high ends of the spectrum, it's not all that significant. But some parents really do like to bandy about those numbers. There are many more important factors that affect intelligence. Several times as a child, I tested in the 140s for IQ, a number which would place me in the 1% of the population that is above 133. Yes, I was [supposedly] gifted, but I was also raised by parents who never attended college, one of whom is a high school drop out (no criticism of my folks, different times). When I started doing graduate-level course work, it became quite clear to me that my [supposed] IQ didn't amount to beans. I was surrounded by people with [supposedly] lower IQs who were smarter than me. Period.

I've sworn to never tell my daughters their IQs. I expect them to earn mostly As and nothing lower than Bs in school, to respect their teachers and other adults, to conduct themselves appropriately in the learning environment, and to treat their peers kindly. We don't label our children. We call them by their names and demand represent our family with dignity, and we don't give a hoot how "gifted" some test tells them they are.

Last edited by lucygirl951; 01-22-2011 at 03:00 PM.. Reason: punctuation
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lucygirl951 View Post
and we don't give a hoot how "gifted" some test tells them they are.

Well, of course, you would love them no matter what.

To me, intelligence is akin to eye color, in that regard. Would you love one child more who had blue eyes, and one child less who had green eyes?

Obviously you would not. You would expect the same moral conduct and you would expect each child to be the best person he/she could be.

However, it seems to me that parents who DO legitimately have children who are highly intelligent are often embarrassed about it, like it's not PC to know/believe that your child is special in some way.

But their child IS special in that way. Again, we all have our unique gifts, but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that a child is exceptionally bright any more than there is anything wrong with acknowledging that a child is exceptionally athletic.

BTW, you said you stated that your education is higher than your parents....but why would that be surprising? "Normal" parents often give birth to exceptional children...think about Einstein's parents or Leonardo da Vinci's parents....
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
.....but some of the most "intellectually gifted" minds have been proven to have certain "mental defects" in other ways. Some of the most gifted of minds, can be "socially retarded". Not politically correct, but.....

As I said, for the most part, gifts come in many different packages. It is the opinion of society, which deems one to be more "great" than another.

True on both counts.

And yes, that explains why ball players are paid millions and why professors (for example) are paid squat....
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
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Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
True on both counts.

And yes, that explains why ball players are paid millions and why professors (for example) are paid squat....

LOL......Agreed! Fabulous point there calgirl!
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Well, of course, you would love them no matter what.

To me, intelligence is akin to eye color, in that regard. Would you love one child more who had blue eyes, and one child less who had green eyes?

Obviously you would not. You would expect the same moral conduct and you would expect each child to be the best person he/she could be.

However, it seems to me that parents who DO legitimately have children who are highly intelligent are often embarrassed about it, like it's not PC to know/believe that your child is special in some way.

But their child IS special in that way. Again, we all have our unique gifts, but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that a child is exceptionally bright any more than there is anything wrong with acknowledging that a child is exceptionally athletic.

BTW, you said you stated that your education is higher than your parents....but why would that be surprising? "Normal" parents often give birth to exceptional children...think about Einstein's parents or Leonardo da Vinci's parents....
I don't think that IQ is the same thing as eye color. Eye color is seen as a genetic characteristic whereas IQ is rightly or wrongly seen more as a parental accomplishment (and also used by parents as evidence of their exemplary parenting).

I believe that my parents are both exceptionally bright people who never reached their full potential, and I also believe that environment has a great deal to do with intelligence...moreso than a number on a test.

DD #2 is too young to have been IQ tested in school yet, but when DD #1 tested into gifted last year, I refused to tell her her IQ. I told her that it was a single number on a single test and that I didn't need it to tell me that she was a bright girl because I already knew that.

While I believe in recognizing my child's intelligence, I also believe that humility is an important personality trait. To me, telling a child over and over that she is "gifted" and providing her with a [not necessarily accurate] number to prove it is just giving her license to see herself as above her peers. I will not raise an elitist or a braggart. But I'm from a working class background, and I think that's where the difference lies. My friends and colleagues who were raised in relative wealth and privilege don't see these things the same way that I do.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
True on both counts.

And yes, that explains why ball players are paid millions and why professors (for example) are paid squat....
True. There's that great line in Good Will Hunting when Robin Williams tells the other wealthier and more recognized prof "I didn't **** up. I made a choice."
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Denver area
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Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
And yes, that explains why ball players are paid millions and why professors (for example) are paid squat....

The fact of where their paychecks are coming from has more to do with it. Educational institutions are not run like "for profit" businesses, as sports teams are. A good number of professors are employees of state universities funded by tax dollars - which is an ever shrinking pool of money.

ETA - It would be more accurate to discuss the value society places on money and why people who make lots of money are frequently deemed more worthy of respect (and often considered more successful), regardless of how they've earned that money.

Last edited by maciesmom; 01-22-2011 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lucygirl951 View Post
While I believe in recognizing my child's intelligence, I also believe that humility is an important personality trait. To me, telling a child over and over that she is "gifted" and providing her with a [not necessarily accurate] number to prove it is just giving her license to see herself as above her peers. I will not raise an elitist or a braggart. But I'm from a working class background, and I think that's where the difference lies. My friends and colleagues who were raised in relative wealth and privilege don't see these things the same way that I do.
I love this post and totally agree. Personal experience. A gifted brother who was constantly told by his teachers how special he and all his classmates were. Total nightmare for my parents to try and bring him back down to earth. We were "white collar" BTW and solidly middle class.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:10 PM
 
3,746 posts, read 2,927,221 times
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Originally Posted by lucygirl951 View Post
I don't think that IQ is the same thing as eye color. Eye color is seen as a genetic characteristic whereas IQ is rightly or wrongly seen more as a parental accomplishment (and also used by parents as evidence of their exemplary parenting).

I believe that my parents are both exceptionally bright people who never While I believe in recognizing my child's intelligence, I also believe that humility is an important personality trait. To me, telling a child over and over that she is "gifted" and providing her with a [not necessarily accurate] number to prove it is just giving her license to see herself as above her peers.

Ah, the nature or nurture question.

I disagree that IQ is not a genetic characteristic.

Let's take it to the other extreme. Let's say you have someone who is, in terms of IQ, on the low end of the spectrum and is the opposite of gifted. (Is it called developmentally delayed? Special Needs? IDK). Anyway, is it not entirely possible, and in fact probable, that a mentally delayed person could be born to two people of average intelligence? (I'm not talking Down syndrome). It can just be an unlucky combination of genes.

A person is not going to be mentally challenged (I'm sorry, I really don't know what the correct term is) just because their parents let them eat Froot Loops and watch Sponge Bob 12 hours a day.

You have your inherent mental capacity that you were born with, and yes, while it may be beneficial to be exposed to music and art and travel from a young age, NOT being exposed to that will not make you stupid (within a normal environment....not talking about abusive situations).

Likewise, you can see the genetic factor of IQ in families. My father, sister, husband, and mother-in-law are all gifted; the rest of us are highly intelligent but not gifted. My son is gifted....I don't think this is an anomoly. At the same time, I think many gifted childen are born to parents of regular intelligence...the statistics alone suggest this. In this case, it is a lucky combination of genes.


________

Second question....why do you think....is it your own background? your social circle?...? that most people go around telling their gifted children that they are gifted? Why do you conclude that most parents of gifted children go around telling them their IQ score? It really sounds to me like you were burned by your "label".

First, yes humility is great, but I also have no problem telling my childen that they are special. (My DD is beautiful...I tell her she is pretty because she is...but I also tell her how to graciously accept compliments because she gets them all the time. I cannot ignore that she is beautiful. She is. And even if I don't tell her, other people do).

Second, you must know yourself that you don't have to tell a gifted child that they are "smart" or "gifted". TRULY gifted children KNOW that they are different from a young age. They are miles ahead of the other kids in their class in the way they make connections about things...most try to dumb themselves down so they will fit in.

Last edited by calgirlinnc; 01-22-2011 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
The fact of where their paychecks are coming from has more to do with it. Educational institutions are not run like "for profit" businesses, as sports teams are. A good number of professors are employees of state universities funded by tax dollars - which is an ever shrinking pool of money.

ETA - It would be more accurate to discuss the value society places on money and why people who make lots of money are frequently deemed more worthy of respect (and often considered more successful), regardless of how they've earned that money.
Good point but I said "for example". And many colleges and universities ARE for profit and professor's pay is still ridiculously low considering their education and their work load.

It is still true that athletes and film stars are paid over the top salaries, while other very worthy (as in contributing to society) careers are paid relatively low.

This is not news, right?
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