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Old 04-17-2011, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,025 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31466

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I'm bumping this thread because of something that happened to me on Thurday. A mom showed me a letter she received from her insurance company, stating that if her child's immunizations were complete by age two, she'd get a $25 Target gift card. The mom was real excited about the gift card, wants to make sure her child is complete so she can get it.

 
Old 04-19-2011, 10:18 AM
 
12,447 posts, read 14,587,292 times
Reputation: 14171
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
You know, I hear this argument often. "There are doctors who are not pro-vaccination". My reply is "so what?"

I could probably find a geologist or astronomer somewhere who wanted to argue that the earth is flat. Maybe there is some physicist somewhere who would argue there is no "law of gravity". Its not what degree the person holds that's important here. What's important is whether they are basing medical practice upon hard science instead of voodoo medicine. The science behind vaccination has been so firmly established that no person in their right mind would argue against the general principle. Some people do dispute vaccination schedules. I don't think disputing schedules established by reputable bodies like the CDC based on opinions of "anonymous physicians" who oppose vaccination is very bright, but I don't put in quite the same category as opposing all vaccination.

I'd for once like to see a list of all pediatricians and family practice physicians in this country who are licensed with either an M.D., or a D.O. who oppose vaccination. I am not counting naturopaths, herbalists, or chiropractors in my survey. So, if there is a list like this than please provide it.






A person who chooses to reject vaccination for their children after all the data that proves it efficacy is truly misinformed. He/she would be a person who ignores guidance from reputable bodies such as the Center for Disease Control, the Food and Drug Administration, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Academy of Family Practice Physicians in favor of listening to what a handful of herbalists and conspiracy freaks believe.

If you and your husband are/have been in the military than you darn well know that there are some things in this country that are compulsory and not mere options for people. I include paying your taxes, jury duty, feeding your children, and sending your kids to school in the list of things that are compulsory.

Vaccination is compulsory in many places because it not only protects your children, but other children from disease as well.

Sometimes I wonder if anti-vaxers absorb anything that is posted here
There is a ton of data that shows that vaccines can and DO cause damage..unfortunately sometimes considerable....this all backed up by many many reputable scientists, epidemiologists, doctors, nuerologists etc.The efficacy of most vaccines is not even known!...95% of people at one time did believe in alchemy, bloodletting, that the earth was flat.....A lot of pregnant women believed their doctors when they were prescribed thalidomide, or des.....anti vaxers (as you put it) have usually done an enormous ammount of research.....something I think you have not....Vaccinators are the snake oil salesmen of our time!!!!
 
Old 04-19-2011, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26559
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
There is a ton of data that shows that vaccines can and DO cause damage..unfortunately sometimes considerable....this all backed up by many many reputable scientists, epidemiologists, doctors, nuerologists etc.The efficacy of most vaccines is not even known!...95% of people at one time did believe in alchemy, bloodletting, that the earth was flat.....A lot of pregnant women believed their doctors when they were prescribed thalidomide, or des.....anti vaxers (as you put it) have usually done an enormous ammount of research.....something I think you have not....Vaccinators are the snake oil salesmen of our time!!!!
There is a ton of data supporting the safety and efficacy of vaccines. You may choose to believe otherwise, but science is not on your side.

And by the way, thalidomide was never approved for use in pregnant women in the USA, thanks to a researcher at the FDA:

Frances Oldham Kelsey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The thalidomide incident led to tighter oversight of pharmaceuticals in the USA.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 11:24 AM
 
12,447 posts, read 14,587,292 times
Reputation: 14171
Prescription Drugs and Their Potentially Adverse Effects | Worldhealth.net Anti-Aging News Science is on MY side, you may choose to believe otherwise
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
799 posts, read 1,593,394 times
Reputation: 410
I found out today that our big corporate insurance HEALTH CARE does NOT COVER any vaccines after age 2. I received a bill for $50 for my son's flu shot. So when I called to figure out why I was having to pay they told me it was EXCLUDED from our corporate "Gold" policy.

Now in order for my children to attend daycare they must be vaccinated and my son starts K in the fall which requires up to date vaccines except for religious exemptions. OF course this isn't pointed out when you sign up for your plans and they have never NOT been covered. I would have never thought to ask if VACCINES would be covered.

I thought they were considered PREVENTATIVE?! And I can get a flu shot for someone 18 or older for $20 at my local pharmacy but they won't treat children so I have to pay full price at the Dr office?! CRAZY. They bring in someone to give my husband and his co-workers flu shots at the office but family isn't allowed and now they won't even cover it.

Can't wait to see what my daughter's PREVNAR booster will cost me from her 3yr old check up today.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:45 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,531,080 times
Reputation: 1916
A flu shot should not be required for preschool or regular school.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:47 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,368,217 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
I'm trying to figure out why your referenced something on that particular group's web site. Their sponsors include a pharmacy, a couple of drug manufacturers and at least one company that runs clinical drug trials.

Never mind that the article didn't really say much other than "some perscription drugs aren't too good for you".
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26559
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post

For adverse reactions to show up after marketing is to be expected. New drugs are tested alone, not in combination with others. Some drug-drug interactions can be predicted based on the pharmacology of the drug molecule; others cannot. Some adverse reactions are so rare that they do not become apparent until many people, perhaps hundreds of thousands, have used them.

The articles referenced in your link are 20 and 10 years old.

Your link does not address several important issues, including which drugs cause the adverse reactions, which patients experience them, and whether they were preventable. How many adverse reactions were due to error and how many were due to the nature of the drug and the condition for which it was being used?

Here is a more recent article:

Trends of adverse drug reactions related-hospitalizations in Spain (2001-2006)

"The drugs most commonly associated with ADR-related hospitalization were antineoplastic and immunosuppressive drugs (n = 75,760), adrenal cortical steroids (n = 47,539), anticoagulants (n = 26,546) and antibiotics (n = 22,144)"

In other words, these were very sick patients to begin with. Many were elderly and frail, possibly even terminal, with cancers and cardiovascular disease.

How about ER visits for adverse drug reactions.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/296/15/1858.full.pdf

"Overall, the 5 most common
drug classes implicated in ADEs were
insulins, opioid-containing analgesics,
anticoagulants, amoxicillincontaining
agents, and antihistamines/
cold remedies"

Should we not prescribe insulin for diabetes and take all cold remedies off the shelves?

Should patients at risk for heart attack or stroke stop their Coumadin or Plavix?

Should we just not prescribe pain meds at all - just let folks suffer?

Look at table 5: vaccines are not on the list of most common drugs causing ER visits. Vaccines are in Table 4, way down the list, and closely followed by herbal and alternative products and nutritional supplements.

So, the statement from your link:

"Herbal therapies and nutritional supplements may support the relief of many health problems without the harmful effects of prescription drugs."

is not true.

Herbs can have adverse effects, too.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26559
Quote:
Originally Posted by alise007 View Post
I found out today that our big corporate insurance HEALTH CARE does NOT COVER any vaccines after age 2. I received a bill for $50 for my son's flu shot. So when I called to figure out why I was having to pay they told me it was EXCLUDED from our corporate "Gold" policy.

Now in order for my children to attend daycare they must be vaccinated and my son starts K in the fall which requires up to date vaccines except for religious exemptions. OF course this isn't pointed out when you sign up for your plans and they have never NOT been covered. I would have never thought to ask if VACCINES would be covered.

I thought they were considered PREVENTATIVE?! And I can get a flu shot for someone 18 or older for $20 at my local pharmacy but they won't treat children so I have to pay full price at the Dr office?! CRAZY. They bring in someone to give my husband and his co-workers flu shots at the office but family isn't allowed and now they won't even cover it.

Can't wait to see what my daughter's PREVNAR booster will cost me from her 3yr old check up today.

Some things to do:

Complain to your husband's company. If the company is big enough and threatens to take its business elsewhere, changes may be made - although perhaps not until renewal.

Check your deductible and copays for the plan you chose. It may be enough lower to offset the cost of the vaccines.

Check with your local Public Health Department. The vaccines may be less expensive there. See here: http://www.immunizenc.com/aboutncib.htm

Last edited by suzy_q2010; 04-19-2011 at 02:09 PM.. Reason: Add NC link
 
Old 04-19-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 34,677,768 times
Reputation: 20198
Also as LeavingMassachusetts said, the flu shot isn't one of the usual vaccines required by schools as a prerequisite to matriculation. And no, it also isn't necessarily covered by insurance, because it isn't a routine childhood vaccination. It is still currently only optional and as such, doesn't have to be covered.
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