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Old 01-23-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,992 posts, read 98,847,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Most children who are unvaccinated are not walking around spreading VPD to the masses. There is no such thing as the "right to be free from communicable disease", vaccine preventable or not.
Actually, I think there is such a "right", for certain diseases, anyway. That is why unimmunized kids can legally be excluded from school during an epidemic of a VPD.

Also, does anyone remember the case of the guy with active TB a few years ago?

TB Patient Apologizes to Plane Passengers, Says He Was Told He Wasn't a Threat - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:19 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,018,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Most children who are unvaccinated are not walking around spreading VPD to the masses.
When there is an outbreak, it's unvaccinated children who spread the disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Actually, I think there is such a "right", for certain diseases, anyway. That is why unimmunized kids can legally be excluded from school during an epidemic of a VPD.
We do have the right. That's why people are quarantined to protect the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I remember him. I was repulsed by his inability to accept responsibility. Goodness, he even taped conversations with US government officials to protect himself legally because he had intentions to travel outside of the US. That to me is proof that he knew he would potentially infect others, but he was more worried about the legal liability than the risk to other people.

He was told outright to not fly back to the states, but he flew anyway because there was no law forbidding him from flying. That's the same mindset of people who chose to not vaccinate their children. They feel that if it's within the law, they have no moral, common sense responsibility.

He knew darn well what he was doing---that's why he flew into Canada so he could try to sneak back into the United States. And his wife is more upset about the US government saying he had to stay in Greece and how people called him a terrorist.

All of this happened because they HAD to marry in Greece, meanwhile, they ended up not getting married there anyway. Selfish people.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 01-23-2011 at 03:14 PM.. Reason: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:22 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,143,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Actually, I think there is such a "right", for certain diseases, anyway. That is why unimmunized kids can legally be excluded from school during an epidemic of a VPD.

Also, does anyone remember the case of the guy with active TB a few years ago?

TB Patient Apologizes to Plane Passengers, Says He Was Told He Wasn't a Threat - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
While it's true that unvaccinated children can be excluded from school in the case of an outbreak, that doesn't mean that there is such a thing as "the right to be free from communicable disease". Rights are defined by the constitution. It's impossible that we would ever have the right to never get sick via communicable disease regardless of the vaccine debate.

This conversation has veered towards talking specifically about vaccinating school children and their right to opt out based on religious, medical or philosophical beliefs. What about children who are home schooled who are under no requirements to vaccinate or adults who's boosters have long since worn off?
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:33 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,143,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
When there is an outbreak, it's unvaccinated children who spread the disease.
Oftentimes that is the case, but not always.

Quote:
I think it's really sad that you have no moral consideration for the community.
This has nothing to do with morality nor does it have anything to do with me personally. This has to do with the definition of the word, "right". Rights are defined by the constitution.

Quote:
How could you not feel sorrowful/guilty/responsible if your unvaccinated child spread a disease to a young child who died?
I hope that when you say "you" you mean "general you". This is not personal, just a discussion of an issue and just because I don't personally believe that the government has a right to force people to vaccinate does not mean that my child is unvaccinated. And to answer your question, I'm sure that parents would feel sorrowful if another child died due to a VPD.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,992 posts, read 98,847,978 times
Reputation: 31412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
While it's true that unvaccinated children can be excluded from school in the case of an outbreak, that doesn't mean that there is such a thing as "the right to be free from communicable disease". Rights are defined by the constitution. It's impossible that we would ever have the right to never get sick via communicable disease regardless of the vaccine debate.

This conversation has veered towards talking specifically about vaccinating school children and their right to opt out based on religious, medical or philosophical beliefs. What about children who are home schooled who are under no requirements to vaccinate or adults who's boosters have long since worn off?
Home schooled children in this state (yours, too, Dorthy) are required to meet the same immunization standards as all other school children. I do believe there are more "opt outs" in the home schooled crowd.

Home Schooling in Colorado (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rlxaYYstzTYJ:www.cde.state.co.us/cdeedserv/homeschool.htm+do+homeschooled+children+have+to+co mply+with+immunization+law+in+colorado&cd=1&hl=en& ct=clnk&gl=us - broken link)

The records shall include, but need not be limited to, attendance data, test and evaluation results, and immunization records, as required by sections 25-4-901, 25-4-902, and 25-4-903, C.R.S.

Adults are supposed to get tetanus-diphtheria boosters every 10 years. Since Tdap came out in 2005, every adult is supposed to get one dose of that vaccine, without regard to when they had their last Td. If an adult gets pertussis, s/he will be advised by their physician to stay home (quarantine themselves) until they have been on antibiotics for 5 days.

http://www.otsegocounty.com/depts/do.../Pertussis.pdf

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-23-2011 at 02:54 PM..
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:44 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,143,379 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Home schooled children in this state (yours, too, Dorthy) are required to meet the same immunization standards as all other school children. I do believe there are more "opt outs" in the home schooled crowd.

Home Schooling in Colorado (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rlxaYYstzTYJ:www.cde.state.co.us/cdeedserv/homeschool.htm+do+homeschooled+children+have+to+co mply+with+immunization+law+in+colorado&cd=1&hl=en& ct=clnk&gl=us - broken link)

The records shall include, but need not be limited to, attendance data, test and evaluation results, and immunization records, as required by sections 25-4-901, 25-4-902, and 25-4-903, C.R.S. Adults are supposed to get tetanus-diphtheria boosters every 10 years. Since Tdap came out in 2005, every adult is supposed to get one dose of that vaccine, without regard to when they had their last Td. If an adult gets pertussis, s/he will be advised by their physician to stay home (quarantine themselves) until they have been on antibiotics for 5 days.

http://www.otsegocounty.com/depts/do.../Pertussis.pdf
Thanks for the info.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:48 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,018,139 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
And to answer your question, I'm sure that parents would feel sorrowful if another child died due to a VPD.
Do you think they'd regret of their decison to not vaccinate after they learned their child was responsible for causing the death of one or more children? In the California outbreak half of the 120 deaths were children. That's a lot of children who died due to a small group of unvaccinated children. Do you think the parents who caused that regretted their decision? I know a fairly large percentage did regret their decision because they chose to vaccinate their children during the outbreak. I would think that people would prefer to think ahead, consider the worse possible outcome, and make a decision before something happened. I know many people chose to vaccinate for that very reason---they are concerned the impact of their decison has on the community.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 01-23-2011 at 03:15 PM.. Reason: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:50 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,018,139 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
What about children who are home schooled who are under no requirements to vaccinate or adults who's boosters have long since worn off?
Since Katiana answered the homeschooled question, I'll answer the adult question.

Adults don't spread diseases at the alarming rate that children spread diseases.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:56 PM
 
852 posts, read 1,136,288 times
Reputation: 1042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I strongly believe it is a moral issue.
It IS a moral issue. You are absolutely right.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,992 posts, read 98,847,978 times
Reputation: 31412
Quote:
Adults don't spread diseases at the alarming rate that children spread diseases.
While the above is true in general, particularly for influenza, the pertussis epidemic in CA is believed to be caused by adults. The formatting of my previous post got messed up when I added the italics for my quote; I have now fixed it.

Until 2005, there was no pertussis vaccine available for anyone over the age of 7. As people's immunity wore off (which it also does with natural pertussis), they wer susceptible. Pertussis in a previously immunized adult is not that severe, and often these people think they just have a bad cold with a lengthly cough. They would pass the disease on to others unknowingly. Now that the vaccine is available (in its 6th year actually) anyone who has or is expected to have contact with children, including day care workers, parents, grandparents, etc. is advised to get the Tdap vaccine, regardless of the length of time since the last Td booster.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/724881
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