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Old 01-24-2011, 01:25 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,146 posts, read 60,884,914 times
Reputation: 20241

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Pertussis boosters are recommended for adults so if the adult doesn't get the booster it's pretty easy to prove that. Same for the flu vaccine. Titers could be checked as a routine part of health care at yearly check ups.
Titers are expensive and invasive. It would be easier to just check and see if the insurance was billed for the shot(s). We do that frequently where I work. Also, a lot of states have immunization registries now, where immunization records are entered. A state record should be sufficient documentation.

 
Old 01-24-2011, 02:24 PM
 
53 posts, read 13,576 times
Reputation: 94
When a mother chooses to not immunize her children, she also chooses to play roulette with their lives. She chooses to possibly have to look her child in the eye while they are dying and tell them it was her choice.

AFTER HER CHILD DIES, other children may also die BECAUSE OF HER CHOICE. Insurance would be the least of her problems. Wait, no.. AFTER HER CHILD DIES, all the doctor and hospital bills would start pouring in. It would be nice if insurance paid for THE LOSS OF HER CHILD AND THE LOSS OF ALL THE OTHERS AS A RESULT of HER CHOICE TO NOT IMMUNIZE.

Personally, I vote for insurance companies NOT covering anyone who would make such a choice.

Of course, the mother would live to pay the bills since HER mother most likely had HER immunized as a baby and small child.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
10,464 posts, read 10,280,068 times
Reputation: 10466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post

I also think that it would be prudent before implementing something like this to examine medical costs, side by side of unvaccinated children and vaccinated children to determine how much more money that unvaccinated children are supposedly costing the system. As of yet we don't even know if unvaccinated children are spending more on Dr. visits then those who vaccinate.
Here is an example of what can happen due to one unvaccinated child who visited Switzerland and brought back measles to a community which had a significant number of unvaccinated children:

The Costs of Non-Vaccinating: The San Diego Measles Outbreak of 2008 | MyHealthCafe.com

"The importation resulted in 839 exposed persons, 11 additional cases (all in unvaccinated children), and the hospitalization of an infant too young to be vaccinated. Two-dose vaccination coverage of 95%, absence of vaccine failure, and a vigorous outbreak response halted spread beyond the third generation, at a net public-sector cost of $10376 per case. Although 75% of the cases were of persons who were intentionally unvaccinated, 48 children too young to be vaccinated were quarantined, at an average family cost of $775 per child."

Please note the cost of quarantining unvaccinated children. That means there has to be a caregiver at home, possibly with lost wages or the cost of hiring someone to stay with the child.

I searched for any information comparing overall health of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children. There is none, only anecdotes asserting that unvaccinated children are healthier with nothing to back them up.

As to the original question, I believe the solution is to offer premium discounts to people who follow healthier lifestyles: not overweight, get a discount. Don't smoke, get a discount. Prove you are controlling your high blood pressure or diabetes, get a discount. Vaccinate your family (adults and children), get a discount.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,080 posts, read 871,983 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
As to the original question, I believe the solution is to offer premium discounts to people who follow healthier lifestyles: not overweight, get a discount. Don't smoke, get a discount. Prove you are controlling your high blood pressure or diabetes, get a discount. Vaccinate your family (adults and children), get a discount.
I think that this is a great idea. My guess is that most parents who intentionally do not vaccinate their children are not going to be swayed by a discount on their health insurance premiums, but it would probably prompt those who simply have not gotten around to getting their kids their shots, or those who really don't care either way, to comply.

I will say that I think the slippery slope argument applies here. One might think that it's a great idea to raise premiums for kids who have not had their pertussis or measles vaccines, but what about kids and adults who did not get their flu shots? Or the HPV vaccine? Or what about older adults who choose to forego their shingles or pneumonia vaccines? I personally would not be swayed into taking something that I considered harmful or unnecessary, or giving sometihng like that to my children, by saving a few dollars on healthcare premiums, but I can see how pharmaceutical companies might jump on this great opportunity.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 08:50 PM
 
43,017 posts, read 50,768,899 times
Reputation: 28812
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
My guess is that most parents who intentionally do not vaccinate their children are not going to be swayed by a discount on their health insurance premiums, but it would probably prompt those who simply have not gotten around to getting their kids their shots, or those who really don't care either way, to comply.
I agree. The CDC report I linked indicated that parents who chose to not immunize their children tend to be educated. As a result, they are less likely to be struggling enough financially to be swayed by a small discount than parents who are merely lazy. Laziness can be motivated via small monitary punishments, but convictions aren't as easily swayed that way by people who can afford the luxury of their convictions.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 09:07 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,146 posts, read 60,884,914 times
Reputation: 20241
I agree with the two previous posts, but OTOH, I think a monetary kick in the pants might make some parents think again. There really are no penalties right now for not immunizing, other than being quarantined from school in the event of an outbreak. I really do favor incentives rather than punishments, at least as a first resort.

We really need to do something to get people back on track again with immunizations.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 09:50 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 3,587,159 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I agree. The CDC report I linked indicated that parents who chose to not immunize their children tend to be educated. As a result, they are less likely to be struggling enough financially to be swayed by a small discount than parents who are merely lazy. Laziness can be motivated via small monitary punishments, but convictions aren't as easily swayed that way by people who can afford the luxury of their convictions.

Educated, perhaps. But Worldly? No way. If they were travelers of any sort, they would want their children to be vaxxed because of potential disease in other countries (Yes, even Europe).

Educated and living in the middle of nowhere perhaps. Because if they lived near any of the major cities in the country they would be aware of the number of travelers from OTHER countries and their potential to bring disease within a sneeze of their little precious bebe's heads.

How educated can you REALLY be when you are so removed from reality?
 
Old 01-24-2011, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,080 posts, read 871,983 times
Reputation: 1423
Mmm, I think that the more educated one is, the more likely to question authority (i.e. the pediatrician, the CDC, the pharma companies), and less likely to accept scare tactics, which, unfortunately, a lot of people use. Take your post about how traveling to Europe puts kids at risk. Might someone catch measles in Paris? Sure, it's just as likely as contracting it in Miami. We traveled to Europe, and I was really not concerned with getting my kids their chickenpox or flu vaccines first, or getting myself a TDaP booster. (Aside from some terrible jet lag, we all returned unscathed.)

If you are relatively uneducated, you're depending on the advice of your pediatrician, period. If you have the means and resources to conduct your own research, you may come up with a different conclusion than the doctor. I'm not just referring to vaccinations, by the way... it's definitely the less educated patients who are asking for (and getting) antibiotic prescriptions for runny noses, etc, and who accept whatever prescription the doctor hands them for whatever malady they may or may not have, without even questioning the necessity, efficacy or potential side effects first!
 
Old 01-24-2011, 10:00 PM
 
2,157 posts, read 2,384,555 times
Reputation: 2102
And what about when you make an educated decision to hold off on a vaccine and even your DOCTOR is in agreement? Not all doctors agree with each other- some over vaccinate, some under vaccinate, but what business is it what decision a family AND their doctor come to on the medical choices for their family?
 
Old 01-24-2011, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,080 posts, read 871,983 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOhioBound View Post
And what about when you make an educated decision to hold off on a vaccine and even your DOCTOR is in agreement? Not all doctors agree with each other- some over vaccinate, some under vaccinate, but what business is it what decision a family AND their doctor come to on the medical choices for their family?
Excellent point. We have had two pediatricians for our children. The first rattled off the recommendations of the CDC and answered our questions from a pro-vaccine standpoint. When we hemmed and hawed about certain vaccines, he lowered his voice and told us which ones he felt were REALLY necessary, and which he didn't feel strongly about. The second (we moved out of state) did the same thing... she recommended all of them, but when I told her what the first had said, she said "yes, I can definitely agree with that." I think that many times, doctors tell you what the majority wants to hear, and sometimes they go along with the CDC recommendations because they're supposed to. Individual doctors, though, don't always adhere to those recommendations for their own children, but may only tell you their thoughts if you really press them. Educated is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.
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