U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-25-2011, 09:15 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,059,506 times
Reputation: 30261

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Keep their family in your prayers...for safety and peace, some financial good thoughts would also be helpful.
I'll definitely do that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-25-2011, 09:36 PM
 
Location: NE Oklahoma
1,036 posts, read 2,580,895 times
Reputation: 1080
I am glad I don't have to live my life to please the posters here. I can tell you from personal experience counseling isn't all it is cracked up to be. It almost ruined my family and my children's lives by being committed to counseling.

1. Every time my daughter would tell the counselor something I got reported. Yes I know she is a mandatory reporter. I am talking about things like "We had bread and cheese for breakfast this morning" HOMEMADE bread and sliced cheese, toasted into an open face sandwich. She reported me at least 5 times before we stopped attending.
2. Our appointments had to be on the SAME DAY at the SAME TIME every week. My oldest almost failed 4th grade Language. The counselor wouldn't alternate the day/time at all. Yes I know routine is good, but there has to be limits.

Yes, it helped the kids some. More than anything else it just made them leery of telling people things. I guess that is a good thing but not really. Sometimes it is good for kids to have someone to talk to that they are not afraid will get mom/dad in trouble.


Being investigated by DHS isn't a determination of your parenting skills. In Oklahoma if you are reported NO MATTER WHAT they have to investigate you. It is the State Law they have to come to your house, they have to interview your kid. At school without your knowledge.

You better hope they aren't mad at you that morning. Is YOUR 13 yr old completely honest about what happens at your house? Would they consider making mischief? Has your kid ever told you "If you don't let me do ________ I will call DHS on you!!!!!" Mine has..and I handed her the phone and told her to do it. She did. I got a visit the next darn day. I guess I shouldn't have dared an 8 yr old huh? Yes she had problems. No they hadn't figured it out yet. And after we changed workers (the one had figured my daughter's reporting game out) the new one was the County Supervisor..who thought ALL parents were guilty, especially the men/fathers/husbands and she acted like we were freaking criminals.

Did you **** off your neighbor/ex-husband/ex-wife/mother-in-law... or anyone else? The Girl Scout Leader that got dismissed from our town reported me.... because she was mad at me. Yes, that earned me a visit. No nothing came of it....but it is still on my record. It is still a mark that says next time.. We will recommend counseling... blah blah blah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2011, 09:47 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,059,506 times
Reputation: 30261
okpondlady, I'm sorry to tell you but that's not the norm for most families.

Most families aren't being reported to CPS. And even less families are reported repeatedly by separate people.

I mean, my goodness, you must be making many enemies if all of those separate people are reporting you simply for being mad at you.

Either that, or all of those people believe they need to report you.

YOU were dong something to draw attention to yourself---be it being a nasty person to so many other adults or a nasty parent they felt they needed to report.

One way or another, your interactions weren't the norm---whether it was your interactions with your children or your interactions with all of these adults.

And there is a big difference between seeking counseling on your own and being committed to counseling. Big difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2011, 09:50 PM
 
Location: here
24,474 posts, read 28,767,996 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by okpondlady View Post
I am glad I don't have to live my life to please the posters here. I can tell you from personal experience counseling isn't all it is cracked up to be. It almost ruined my family and my children's lives by being committed to counseling.

1. Every time my daughter would tell the counselor something I got reported. Yes I know she is a mandatory reporter. I am talking about things like "We had bread and cheese for breakfast this morning" HOMEMADE bread and sliced cheese, toasted into an open face sandwich. She reported me at least 5 times before we stopped attending.
2. Our appointments had to be on the SAME DAY at the SAME TIME every week. My oldest almost failed 4th grade Language. The counselor wouldn't alternate the day/time at all. Yes I know routine is good, but there has to be limits.

Yes, it helped the kids some. More than anything else it just made them leery of telling people things. I guess that is a good thing but not really. Sometimes it is good for kids to have someone to talk to that they are not afraid will get mom/dad in trouble.


Being investigated by DHS isn't a determination of your parenting skills. In Oklahoma if you are reported NO MATTER WHAT they have to investigate you. It is the State Law they have to come to your house, they have to interview your kid. At school without your knowledge.

You better hope they aren't mad at you that morning. Is YOUR 13 yr old completely honest about what happens at your house? Would they consider making mischief? Has your kid ever told you "If you don't let me do ________ I will call DHS on you!!!!!" Mine has..and I handed her the phone and told her to do it. She did. I got a visit the next darn day. I guess I shouldn't have dared an 8 yr old huh? Yes she had problems. No they hadn't figured it out yet. And after we changed workers (the one had figured my daughter's reporting game out) the new one was the County Supervisor..who thought ALL parents were guilty, especially the men/fathers/husbands and she acted like we were freaking criminals.

Did you **** off your neighbor/ex-husband/ex-wife/mother-in-law... or anyone else? The Girl Scout Leader that got dismissed from our town reported me.... because she was mad at me. Yes, that earned me a visit. No nothing came of it....but it is still on my record. It is still a mark that says next time.. We will recommend counseling... blah blah blah.
that is beyond ridiculous. I used to take food histories from people who were complaining about getting food poisoning. I heard MUCH worse than that. That just isn't anything close to child abuse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2011, 09:56 PM
 
5,703 posts, read 15,506,761 times
Reputation: 8514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
okpondlady, I'm sorry to tell you but that's not the norm for most families.

Most families aren't being reported to CPS. And even less families are reported repeatedly by separate people.

I mean, my goodness, you must be making many enemies if all of those separate people are reporting you simply for being mad at you.

Either that, or all of those people believe they need to report you.

YOU were dong something to draw attention to yourself---be it being a nasty person to so many other adults or a nasty parent they felt they needed to report.

One way or another, your interactions weren't the norm---whether it was your interactions with your children or your interactions with all of these adults.

And there is a big difference between seeking counseling on your own and being committed to counseling. Big difference.
I agree. Wow, had no idea so many had CPS stalking them for no reason. I am not buying it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2011, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,674,546 times
Reputation: 19409
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post
I agree. Wow, had no idea so many had CPS stalking them for no reason. I am not buying it.
Believe it fallingwater...some children are simply that psychopathic and convincing. Believe me, I've personally seen it, MANY times. They could sell you your own house. They will pound themselves black and blue and fall to the floor in hysteria, begging the police to help them. They will burn themselves with cigarettes, then scream for the arrest of the parent who wouldn't let them go to drinking parties. The things I've seen make your heart stop....your jaw drop....unable to breath, because you can not believe a child can be so completely evil. Fairly rare...not as much as we would love to think. Parents can be completely faultless, it can simply be a matter of a "brain defect"....causing a lack of conscience, total lack of empathy...some people can NOT feel or care or even understand the horror of their actions. It's not just in the movies, these people are very real....and many parents are curled in corners, living with hopelessness and fear on a daily basis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2011, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,989,212 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
okpondlady, I'm sorry to tell you but that's not the norm for most families.

Most families aren't being reported to CPS. And even less families are reported repeatedly by separate people.

I mean, my goodness, you must be making many enemies if all of those separate people are reporting you simply for being mad at you.

Either that, or all of those people believe they need to report you.

YOU were dong something to draw attention to yourself---be it being a nasty person to so many other adults or a nasty parent they felt they needed to report.

One way or another, your interactions weren't the norm---whether it was your interactions with your children or your interactions with all of these adults.

And there is a big difference between seeking counseling on your own and being committed to counseling. Big difference.
Yep. Plus, if your kid would lie to CPS about you, there's a problem. I did not have a good home life growing up at all. My sisters and I should have been removed from our house. A neighbor called CPS on the family once. They came to my school and talked to me. I wasn't going to sell my parents down the river even though I knew we should probably live somewhere else. It just isn't normal to do. They talked to my sister at her school, too. This was when we were both in elementary school but separate ones. Neither of us lied. We just answered the questions they asked without offering anymore detail. Most kids don't try to get their parents in trouble, especially that often. My sister and I never told anyone that we were visited at school by CPS that day until a couple years ago.

Maybe we had a different view on being taken away, though, because our grandpa was a social worker. We knew that foster homes were not great places in general, but still most kids I knew would not lie to get their parents in trouble with CPS.

Hopes is right that it is very rare that people will turn you in, especially multiple people. Our family should have been turned in way more than one time, but it wasn't. In general, people won't call unless they think something very serious is going on because no one wants to get involved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2011, 11:39 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 10,380,577 times
Reputation: 8956
I would never have believed it was possible but I have met a couple of "bad seeds" for lack of a better term. And I am not saying this has to be permanent - I think there is hope for everyone - I personally believe in the power of prayer and knowing what I know now, if I ran up against any person like this, acting out in painful ways, I would go online and ask for prayers for them. I would pray myself, night and day - and ask everyone I know to pray - I would try spiritual means, as well as the psychological help that is available.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 01-26-2011 at 06:43 AM.. Reason: Deleted off-topic comments
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 12:13 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,535 posts, read 29,266,824 times
Reputation: 21277
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
I have 2 kids, dd13, and ds14, both refuse to wear coats, although the weather has been quite cold lately, around 20's night, high 30's day. Also, my ds insists on wearing shorts in this weather.

Both kids have coats, they simply won't wear them. They insist on wearing those hoodies all the time. Ok, so wear what they want, if they get cold enough they will wear something more appropriate for the weather?

Problem is, I have an ongoing relationship with CPS. DS loves to call them every little thing, and they have been out here so much its ridiculous. Last time he called, he complained he didn't have clothes. what he meant was I refused to spend $$$ on designer stuff. he has plenty of plain, ordinary, regular clothes. But tell that to CPS, expecially when all they ever see the kid wear is the same old, wash-worn tee shirt and shorts, in the dead of winter.

Well, I can't run after him and stuff him into appropriate clothes, like some 2-year old. I keep copies of all receipts to show he has more than adequate clothing provided. what he choses to do with them is up to him. I've also told CPS I will not discuss anything with them again without a court order. I'm sick of them calling, showing up at my door, all in response to ds's calls (oh, they're called "outcries"). Every social worker who comes out here acts like she's here to save him from the evil mother. Meanwhile he continues to wander around dressed pathetically.

Ok, this is what I will do----he doesn't need shorts for at least a few months---get rid of them. the only choices he will have are long pants. But what about refusing to wear a coat? Ditch the hoodies, only thing he has is a coat. then he will probably wander around with no coat, just to attract attention.

I mean, its so bad, once police brought him home, he was out walking around in 30 degree weather with no coat, shorts, and flip flops. he told police I told him to go out that way---BS! I asked him to run to the store for me, I certainly didn't tell him to go half naked! But police called CPS, although I showed the CPS gal all the warm clothes he has hanging in his closet, she still wrote up a charge against us, still pending. Then later I realized many of the warm clothing is missing, I think ds throws it away when I'm not aware. How on earth to convince CPS he's the one "abusing" himself, not me. I buy clothes that fit, are appropriate for the weather, do a reasonable job of monitoring him, but I can't be expected to chase after a 14-year old kid (who, BTW, is 6 ft tall) and dress him like a baby!

DD won't wear anything other than a hoodie, either, but at least she wears long pants, gloves, boots, etc. I guess all I can do is what I'm doing. Also, perhaps I could leave a change of clothes at the school, long pants, long sleeved shirt, jacket, so if a teacher thinks he's not dressed "appropriately" they can just send him to the office to change, not call me in the middle of the day. Let them argue with him he wants to wear shorts in 30 degree weather, and tell them that's all he has, when he has a change right there in the office.
I have to wonder who is in charge at your house. What is going to happen when, at 17 your children decide that they don't have to go to school, and they don't have to get a job and they are perfectly happy smoking pot or doing other drugs all day?

It seems to me that the inmates are running the prison here. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that you better get a handle on this fast or you are going to have nothing but heartache for the rest of your life.

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 01:11 AM
 
5,703 posts, read 15,506,761 times
Reputation: 8514
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Believe it fallingwater...some children are simply that psychopathic and convincing. Believe me, I've personally seen it, MANY times. They could sell you your own house. They will pound themselves black and blue and fall to the floor in hysteria, begging the police to help them. They will burn themselves with cigarettes, then scream for the arrest of the parent who wouldn't let them go to drinking parties. The things I've seen make your heart stop....your jaw drop....unable to breath, because you can not believe a child can be so completely evil. Fairly rare...not as much as we would love to think. Parents can be completely faultless, it can simply be a matter of a "brain defect"....causing a lack of conscience, total lack of empathy...some people can NOT feel or care or even understand the horror of their actions. It's not just in the movies, these people are very real....and many parents are curled in corners, living with hopelessness and fear on a daily basis.
I have seen it Beachmel. I think you are thoughtful and kind. I have mentioned before I was in the social work field. I also worked in a lock up youth home in the city of Detroit. It was 95% black. I am white and at that time weighing a mere buck o five (sadly no more) and I stand at 5 feet 4 inches tall. I dealt with some pretty scary kids with serious problems and to boot hated white people. I survived a riot, disarming a child with a homemade knife (did you know if you dismantle an exit sign, the soft metal can be bent into a lovely and useful shank?) Kids that I knew deep down could not be saved. It is sad. I also have met some really screwed up social workers that never should be dealing with kids. They went to school for it because they thought it would be easy. Then they start working in the field and realize it is a huge emotional toll and the pay sucks. Social services are one of the most poorly funded organizations in our country and now with the economy, those services are consistently being cut or eliminated altogether. The meals we served to these kids were garbage. The organization had strict budgets. The average weight gain of a child incarcerated is approx. 60 lbs. or more. I saw slim kids come in and head out borderline obese. Everything is starch. The program works if the kid is willing to try and the parents offer support even if it means they realize they are part of the problem too. Sometimes what makes it work is the child being removed from the household so their issues can be addressed first and then the family therapy starts.

I have met parents from all walks of life. Horrible people that IMO, should be sterilized, parents that are all to eager to sign their kids over to the state, parents that only knew dysfunction and see nothing wrong with it and parents that were involved and completely lost on what to do because they gave a 110%. One of my kids in my unit had parents that were both prominent psychologists in that area. They wrote articles that were published, gave speeches on therapy and their secret pain was their own child was locked up. Can you image their frustration? Both highly skilled in their field but unable to help their own child. The child was a sociopath. I will be honest, the kid scared the crap out of me. I never turned my back on her. She was extremely intelligent, well schooled, saw more of the world than I did (fab vacations to Paris and so forth) and would think nothing of slitting your throat.

But here is the thing. Even in the very unperfect world of social work, CPS agencies and our lovely court system there is a course of how things work. If a child is truly a threat within a household, causing major disruption and danger. The child needs to be removed from the household and I do not say this lightly because it is a very serious measure from the examples I gave above. If it is a case of a dysfunctional household where therapy is already in the works then the agencies will continue to monitor because they know how youth homes operate. If you have money, you can spend the cash on sending your child to one of those high priced boot camps which do not always work. Those prominent psychology parents spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their child. When the state gets involved, it is not so pretty but maybe the only course of action. That is why I encourage people not to be hostile. Show you are reasonable. You used a term that really caught my attention. You said the OP child's was terrorizing the household. A terrorist of sorts. If that is the case, then the child needs to be removed from the household for intense treatment. If the household is consistently in turmoil, nothing is going to work.

So my advice was and still is, see if the problem MAY be resolved through private counseling. Maybe the counselor the OP is seeing simply sucks. It happens and not sure why the counselor hasn't addressed the child using CPS as a means of control. The OP did mention that her insurance only pays for so many visits. Again, a problem. Counseling is not cheap. It takes time to break down barriers. So this when you have to really make the most of the sessions. I do not know the OP and I do not look up past threads. Still have no idea about the butter incident people keep referring to. I remember the OP as I think most senior members recognize people after a while. I do not agree with bashing anyone on here either. I have been bashed and I do not like it. It can be a comfort and then other times it's like..ah man, why did I even start that thread?

Anger is a very powerful emotion that causes a lot of discord within a household. What bothers me is hearing about how people having CPS visit so often over "nothing". They keep showing up for a reason. They see dysfunction and no CPS worker is going to ignore that because if the child is beat to death by the stressed out parent, guess who gets blamed? The resources are far too limited for agencies to be purely checking clothing receipts and nothing else. (okay done with my novel)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top