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Old 02-02-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn New York
15,228 posts, read 23,743,496 times
Reputation: 19847

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
This is my guess as well. My brothers are both intact, and they both are thankful to my parents for not cutting off part of their respective bodies. My husband is circed, and does not miss his foreskin (but thankfully did not try to insist that our son would be circed). You are used to what you know. This is evident by the number of girls in Africa and elsewhere still undergoing female genital mutilation by their own mothers and grandmothers. All of those women are evidently happy that they had it done, because they then turn around and do it to their own daughters. It's what they know, and what seems "normal" to them, whether it is, in fact, normal to the rest of the population or not.


Correct, because when I asked my mother why I was cut, she said the doctor said to....and I guess obviously since she doesn't have a penis she trusted the doctor's judgement, and in the 60's they must have been the rage (ugh).

I just never understood why my father (who is European) from Greece that wasn't cut, why he let them do it to me???....I guess will never know the answer to that question................................

 
Old 02-02-2011, 08:30 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 13,791,023 times
Reputation: 18791
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMassachusetts View Post
Not sure, I had a mole I thought was gross my whole life and I grew up with it. I had it removed
You made the choice to have the mole removed. Your son never had the opportunity to make a similar choice.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,982,884 times
Reputation: 3861
My husband would have had a problem with not being circumsized had he not been. It's very common where he comes from, and from what I gather not having it done there is an issue with guys. Even now, he gets kind of upset when I ask if he wants our future sons to be circumsized. It's not a question for him. Parents make choices about their children's bodies all the time.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,257,474 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrawler View Post
Blech.

You had your son cut so YOU would have less work "cleaning" it.

How lazy could a person possibly be. ??

Cleaning an uncut penis really doesn't take that much time, and I have triplet boys.
What is with all the arrogant derogatory comments coming from the nay crowd. In the USA we can do what we want with our children, isn't that what all these Grizzly Bear mothers demand? The freedom to home school without the government interfering? The freedom to not vaccinate? The freedom to eat granola. There is no harm in circumcizing or else it would not be legal. In fact there are 2 studies that show it prevents a variety of STDs from spreading. So how can anyone justify posting rude comments to other people who are actually doing something to prevent the spread of diseases and making the best decision for THEIR family?

Gathering from these posts, mothers of uncuts appear to believe they are better MOTHERS than cut ones. I find such judgmental people unattractive, EVEN MORE so then an uncut penis, and that ugliness is rearing its head in this thread. It actually reminds me of the breastfeeding nazi's who post. Show some respect for other point of views. Just because some women do not like the look OR feel of a turtleneck does not mean other women don't just ADORE it. So what? To each their own.

I think you should reread the thread. That is not the reason I had my son cut. But since you find it appropriate to not only personally attack because you do not agree with my religious views on circumcision, but are intolerant of anyone who does do it for whatever reason, I would Love to know your background is. No one ever produced that link that stated educated people do not circumcise because there is no study backing up such nonsense.

People do it for a variety of reasons, we are religious, we did think it looks better, the father is cut, which is somewhat like when people name their children jr., it is carrying on tradition and there is the clean factor which is something to consider.

I am sure my son will eventually hate me for a variety of reasons and this may be one of them, but I can live with that.

The reason females are not circumcised is because there is no positive for it. No lowered risk of STDs, no prevention of anything. I am sure if it has any reason other than ornamental or traditional it would be done in the US as well.

If there was no medical or hygenic reasons for boys circ, we would have reconsidered the religious aspects, but since that is not the case, we went ahead.

The reasons you don't let your sons decide later is because it will hurt more with age, so if he wanted it done, the moment has passed unless he is determined,

If you want to say we are choosing for them, that is correct.There are a million decisions parents make for the children every day,from where to place the car seat in the car, whether to vaccinate, what school to attend, where to live, what to eat, when to sleep, whether to attend church, whether to believe in santa/tooth fairy/boogie man, what to wear.

As a parent we decide their fate EVERY day. Oh, and I pierced my girls ears at 8 and 10 months old.

As for losing sensation? That is false.[LEFT]A study in the San Francisco Bay Area conducted by notable anti-circumcision activists and funded by NOCIRC measured "fine-touch pressure thresholds" at 19 locations on the uncircumcised and 11 on the circumcised penis [Sorrells et al., 2007]. Although the authors claimed that their study showed the ***** of the uncircumcised penis to be more sensitive than the circumcised, this is false, as analysis of their data by Waskett & Morris showed there was in fact no statistical difference [Waskett & Morris, 2007]. Despite other claims, the actual statistics in the NOCIRC paper showed a marginally significant difference (P = 0.03) only for the orifice rim. However, their statistical analysis was nave and incomplete.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]When Waskett & Morris then conducted a Bonferroni correction on their data, as should have been done by the authors, in order to eliminate false positives arising from the multiple testing they carried out, this marginal statistical difference disappeared [Waskett & Morris, 2007]. Their data thus showed there was no difference in sensitivity between the circumcised and uncircumcised penis. Moreover, serious design flaws, subjects in the Methods who were unaccounted for in the data presented in their Results section, biased presentation, and other omissions make this study lack any credibility whatsoever [Waskett & Morris, 2007].[/LEFT]

Last edited by Taboo2; 02-02-2011 at 09:26 PM..
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,788,166 times
Reputation: 14677
Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
My husband would have had a problem with not being circumsized had he not been. It's very common where he comes from, and from what I gather not having it done there is an issue with guys. Even now, he gets kind of upset when I ask if he wants our future sons to be circumsized. It's not a question for him. Parents make choices about their children's bodies all the time.
I think it's worth pointing out that many aspects of parenting have changed since your husband was born. There is way more information available, and this is one of many issues it's worth exploring with your pediatrician. Both of you should make an informed decision, not just do what has always been done. Tradition is all fine and good, but is not always the best choice.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,788,166 times
Reputation: 14677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
In fact there are 2 studies that show it prevents a variety of STDs from spreading. So how can anyone justify posting rude comments to other people who are actually doing something to prevent the spread of diseases and making the best decision for THEIR family?
This is an absolutely incorrect statement. There is a decrease in the rate of transmission. That does not mean people who are circumcised can not be infected. Circumcised individuals will still need to use safe sexual practices like everyone else, unless they are a fan of STD Russian-roulette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
Gathering from these posts, mothers of uncuts appear to believe they are better MOTHERS than cut ones. I find such judgmental people unattractive, EVEN MORE so then an uncut penis, and that ugliness is rearing its head in this thread. It actually reminds me of the breastfeeding nazi's who post. Show some respect for other point of views. Just because some women do not like the look OR feel of a turtleneck does not mean other women don't just ADORE it. So what? To each their own.
Some posters continue to bring up the appearance of an uncircumcised penis, which is for me quite an extraordinary reason to remove a part of another persons genitalia. If you choose to do so, that's fine. But some will see it as a pretty silly reason and continue to point it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
people do not circumcise because there is no study backing up such nonsense.
I don't understand what you are saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
and there is the clean factor which is something to consider.
Cleanliness is a non-issue. Unless you are a nomad living in the desert, there is no reason not to utilise proper hygiene as you do for other body parts.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:45 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,257,474 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
This is an absolutely incorrect statement. There is a decrease in the rate of transmission. That does not mean people who are circumcised can not be infected. Circumcised individuals will still need to use safe sexual practices like everyone else, unless they are a fan of STD Russian-roulette.
I said prevent meaning for SOME it does prevent catching HIV and HPV, it definitely reduces your odds. That is a medical reason.
Clean-Cut: Study Finds Circumcision Helps Prevent HIV and Other Infections: Scientific American
The World Health Organization declared three years ago that circumcision should be part of any strategy to prevent HIV infection in men. The organization based its recommendation on three randomized clinical trials in Africa that found the incidence of HIV was 60 percent lower in men who were circumcised. Although this "research evidence is compelling," wrote the WHO panel assigned to the topic, there was little evidence explaining how circumcision might reduce a man's risk of acquiring HIV.
At 12 months after circumcision, the microbiome's predominant bacterial population had shifted fromanaerobic to aerobic, which require oxygen to grow. Whereas the researchers detected similar number of bacteria belonging to aerobic families in circumcised and uncircumcised samples, they found that the abundance of anaerobic family members plummeted after circumcision. As the authors wrote, this decrease makes sense because there is an oxygen-deprived area under the foreskin that is lost after circumcision.


Circumcision reduces risk of herpes and HPV infection - CNN
Men who are circumcised are less likely to get sexually transmitted infections such as genital herpes and human papillomavirus (HPV), but not syphilis, according to a study of adult African men published this week in the New England Journal of Medicine.
The finding adds to the evidence that there are health benefits to circumcision. It was already known that circumcision can reduce the risk of penile cancer, a relatively rare disease. In a previous study, the same research team found that adult circumcision could reduce the risk of HIV infection.

Quote:

I don't understand what you are saying.
Someone stated that the instance of circumcision was somehow related to education. The higher educated you are, the less likely to circ. I am asking for the study proving that.

Quote:
Cleanliness is a non-issue. Unless you are a nomad living in the desert, there is no reason not to utilise proper hygiene as you do for other body parts.
Teens are funky.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:48 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,139,816 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
What is with all the arrogant derogatory comments coming from the nay crowd. In the USA we can do what we want with our children, isn't that what all these Grizzly Bear mothers demand? The freedom to home school without the government interfering? The freedom to not vaccinate? The freedom to eat granola. There is no harm in circumcizing or else it would not be legal. In fact there are 2 studies that show it prevents a variety of STDs from spreading. So how can anyone justify posting rude comments to other people who are actually doing something to prevent the spread of diseases and making the best decision for THEIR family?

Gathering from these posts, mothers of uncuts appear to believe they are better MOTHERS than cut ones. I find such judgmental people unattractive, EVEN MORE so then an uncut penis, and that ugliness is rearing its head in this thread. It actually reminds me of the breastfeeding nazi's who post. Show some respect for other point of views. Just because some women do not like the look OR feel of a turtleneck does not mean other women don't just ADORE it. So what? To each their own.
Since you don't like the judgement then maybe you should refrain from judging others so harshly yourself. Nazi's? Really?
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:52 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,257,474 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Since you don't like the judgement then maybe you should refrain from judging others so harshly yourself. Nazi's? Really?
I am all for doing whatever you want to yourself or children as long as it is legal and harmless. I have a personal affection for the cut guys. I just didn't like to touch the other kind. I guess that made me juvenile but since I WAS a juvenile and I have been married forever, I haven't tested myself to see if I have overcome my personal issues with uncuts.

PS Breastfeeding Nazi's is slang for women who are overbearing when talking about breastfeeding choices,.

Urban Dictionary: breastfeeding nazi
 
Old 02-03-2011, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,400 posts, read 2,000,182 times
Reputation: 3231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
What is with all the arrogant derogatory comments coming from the nay crowd. In the USA we can do what we want with our children, isn't that what all these Grizzly Bear mothers demand? The freedom to home school without the government interfering? The freedom to not vaccinate? The freedom to eat granola. There is no harm in circumcizing or else it would not be legal.

Alcohol and cigarettes, much?

In fact there are 2 studies that show it prevents a variety of STDs from spreading. So how can anyone justify posting rude comments to other people who are actually doing something to prevent the spread of diseases and making the best decision for THEIR family?

Gathering from these posts, mothers of uncuts appear to believe they are better MOTHERS than cut ones. I find such judgmental people unattractive, EVEN MORE so then an uncut penis, and that ugliness is rearing its head in this thread. It actually reminds me of the breastfeeding nazi's who post. Show some respect for other point of views. Just because some women do not like the look OR feel of a turtleneck does not mean other women don't just ADORE it. So what? To each their own.

I think you should reread the thread. That is not the reason I had my son cut. But since you find it appropriate to not only personally attack because you do not agree with my religious views on circumcision, but are intolerant of anyone who does do it for whatever reason, I would Love to know your background is. No one ever produced that link that stated educated people do not circumcise because there is no study backing up such nonsense.

People do it for a variety of reasons, we are religious, we did think it looks better, the father is cut, which is somewhat like when people name their children jr., it is carrying on tradition and there is the clean factor which is something to consider.

Are you Jewish or Muslim? If not, your religion does not demand this. Christianity did away with the need for circumcision very early in its history.

I am sure my son will eventually hate me for a variety of reasons and this may be one of them, but I can live with that.

Yes, because you mutilated him in conforming with a dying social norm. Depending on his birth year, race, class and birth place, he will be from the 50%-90% of the locker room. If he was born after 2000, this will be closer to 50%. If he was born in the West, this will drop further. [I only included the 90% to account for my birth year...1989 in NYC...when nearly everyone was (at least in my class in school...white middle/upper middle class).

The reason females are not circumcised is because there is no positive for it. No lowered risk of STDs, no prevention of anything. I am sure if it has any reason other than ornamental or traditional it would be done in the US as well.

In the US it is ornamental and traditional. Look at your own reasons. "Dad was cut, why not the boys?" Grandma didn't receive a college education, so why should any of the daughters or granddaughters get one? Daddy smoked Lucky Strikes....so I'll get Mike a pack for his 13th birthday.

If there was no medical or hygenic reasons for boys circ, we would have reconsidered the religious aspects, but since that is not the case, we went ahead.

If you want to say we are choosing for them, that is correct.There are a million decisions parents make for the children every day,from where to place the car seat in the car, whether to vaccinate, what school to attend, where to live, what to eat, when to sleep, whether to attend church, whether to believe in santa/tooth fairy/boogie man, what to wear.

As a parent we decide their fate EVERY day. Oh, and I pierced my girls ears at 8 and 10 months old.
See my comments in red above.

You are making a decision that will yield significant consequences in his sexual functioning and development. Any deviation from what nature provided damn well should have a better reason than "Daddy has it...and it's legal...therefore no harm will come of it."

A circumcised man (such as myself) still has the same basic worries about STD's. A minute reduction in transmission rates does not abrogate the need to use a condom outside of long-standing committed relationship.

The removal of the foreskin can cause pubic hair to move up the shaft of the penis during puberty as skin is stretched during growth. This is not attractive and rather difficult to control.

Finally we arrive at the sex itself. The lack of foreskin results in a somewhat reduced vaginal lubricant production. In some women this is severe, in others, it's barely perceptible. Also, the man can last slightly longer (I personally do not have pre-mature ejaculation problems...though I have had to quit after 40+ minutes without orgasm). It's a trade-off, though I am somewhat relieved that I won't be known as a "minute man."
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