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Old 09-09-2011, 08:42 AM
 
6 posts, read 4,205 times
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Circumcision is mutilation of a male body, and should never be done to anyone without their consent. If a man over the age of consent wants it doing, that is his choice. No one should have the right to circumcise or force circumcision, onto a male or female without their full consent.

 
Old 09-09-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 35,007,171 times
Reputation: 42372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Why is it called genital mutilation when it's done to girls and called circumcision when it's done to boys?
It's not. I am combining this thread with another circumcision thread; this is from that one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
The current accepted term is female genital cutting, not female genital mutilation, because mutilation is an emotionally charged word. It's like calling someone who is pro-choice a babykiller. It is not a neutral word. My advice to you, if you honestly want to change people's minds, is to lay off the hysterical language and to speak reasonably. No parent will identify with the word mutilation, as in, "I mutilated my child," and therefore no parent will listen to what you have to say.

Let's look at the word mutilate. From Merriam Webster:

mutilate (transitive verb)
1. to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect (the child mutilated the book with his scissors)
2. to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or other essential part: cripple

Because foreskin is neither a limb nor an essential part of the body (millions of boys and men live fine without it), the second definition does not apply. I contend that circumcision-which, by they way, is a perfectly good word, meaning to cut around--does not radically alter a boy or man, nor is he imperfect afterward. If removing a piece of skin renders a boy imperfect, then so does an appendectomy or tonsillectomy. I'd just love to see a bunch of sign-wavers marching around a hospital accusing parents of abdominal mutilation because their kid got appendicitis.
Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I think there ARE important facts buried in there that future parents should know.

1. From a health perspective, male circumcision is not an essential surgery.
2. Circumcisions are sometimes botched, and reconstruction or additional surgeries can be painful and expensive.
3. A parent has the right to refuse to circumsise his or her child.
4. If a person is opposed to female genital cutting, which is a very common sentiment especially in the U.S., then that person should examine his or her feelings about male circumcision.

Emotionally charged words like "barbaric" and "mutilate" will turn people off, as will wild accusations that parents who circumcise are perverts or that biomedical companies make trillions of dollars from bits of foreskin.
The last part about "trillions of dollars" was in response to the OP of that thread.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 08:51 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,144,832 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
It's not.
I was responding to Capt Dan who referred to cutting females as genital mutilation. I was trying to make the point that if one considers female circumcision to be mutilation then why would they not consider male circumcision to be mutilation.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,332,177 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
Are there any positive factual studies on health benefits for hood removal like there are w/circ? No? That's why we don't do it.
The clitoral hood is homologous with the male foreskin. It can harbor the same germs and bacteria that a man's foreskin can, and if not properly cared for can produce some unhealthy conditions for the woman and quite possibly her male partner.

The only reason there are so many studies regarding male circumcision is because for some sick reason, it has been so widely accepted for such a long time. You've been convinced that it's for good reason, but the fact is that the practice is largely tied up in so much misinformation and propaganda that most people don't know the truth.

In much earlier times, when practicing excellent daily hygiene wasn't always possible, many would argue that circumcision was helpful. But Western society has completely evolved to the point that we are able to care for our bodies in the proper manner, thus making circumcision completely pointless.

If men weren't supposed to have foreskins, they wouldn't be born with them.

Last edited by JustJulia; 09-09-2011 at 09:15 AM.. Reason: removed inflammatory comment
 
Old 09-09-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,957,822 times
Reputation: 2620
Regarding men talking about their own circ status, I have witnessed this come up in conversations with my husband and friends twice. Both conversations were initiated in reference to a friend having new baby boy who was left intact. This led to a discussion of whether the fathers were also intact (which they were not) and how they felt about it. The consensus in both situations was that they did not blame their mothers for circumcising them because they were just doing what they felt was best at the time. But that it wasn't something they wanted to do to their own sons. Nobody seemed traumatized about it, but they didn't really seem happy about it either. The circ topic still comes up regularly with one of the friends because his wife is now wobbling on whether she wants to get her son circ'ed (he is now almost a year old), but the husband does not want to. So I would say that it does come up sometimes in casual conversation.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 11:58 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
they did not blame their mothers for circumcising them because they were just doing what they felt was best at the time.
My experience as well. The ones who wish it hadn't been done vow never to have their own sons circumcised and the conversation pretty much ends there.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 11:58 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,239,684 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
The clitoral hood is homologous with the male foreskin. It can harbor the same germs and bacteria that a man's foreskin can,
I have never understood the bacteria argument. The leading carrier and transmitter of germs is our hands. Do we reduce the risk of transmission by cutting them off? No, we wash them.

Quote:
and if not properly cared for can produce some unhealthy conditions for the woman and quite possibly her male partner.

The only reason there are so many studies regarding male circumcision is because for some sick reason, it has been so widely accepted for such a long time. You've been convinced that it's for good reason, but the fact is that the practice is largely tied up in so much misinformation and propaganda that most people don't know the truth.
It is not a matter of knowing or education. It is about
- religion and
- not WANTING to change a view because it may mean admitting that someone somewhere , you or someone that you knew, might be wrong.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,332,177 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I have never understood the bacteria argument. The leading carrier and transmitter of germs is our hands. Do we reduce the risk of transmission by cutting them off? No, we wash them.


It is not a matter of knowing or education. It is about
- religion and
- not WANTING to change a view because it may mean admitting that someone somewhere , you or someone that you knew, might be wrong.
True, but hearing the opinions of people in this thread and elsewhere, a lot of folks truly believe that circumcision is a better option, and that "health concerns" make it justifiable.

I keep hearing people say "we had our son(s) circumcised because we felt it was the best choice for our family". What does that even mean?

Btw, not trying to be inflammatory here. Just asking a legitimate question.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 12:54 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,239,684 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
True, but hearing the opinions of people in this thread and elsewhere, a lot of folks truly believe that circumcision is a better option, and that "health concerns" make it justifiable.
I don't think so. I think the justification comes after the fact. They seek justification for the prejudgement that they are going to do it
- so he looks like Dad
- for religious reasons
- women like it better. (wtf, we do??)

or other non-reasons. THEN they seek some kind of intelligent medical reason.

Quote:
I keep hearing people say "we had our son(s) circumcised because we felt it was the best choice for our family". What does that even mean?
It means absolutely nothing.
 
Old 09-09-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,800,037 times
Reputation: 14677
Actually the terms "female genital cutting, "female circumcision", and "female genital mutilation" are used interchangeably. There is no specific accepted term, and all 3 terms have very different cultural and emotive connotations depending on the context.

Female genital cutting fact sheet | womenshealth.gov

WHO | Female genital mutilation

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