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Old 01-29-2011, 11:46 AM
 
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I did not want to hijack the post that poses the question on punishment for a rude tween.

My thoughts as I read through the posts, is if my 11 yo daughter was rude enough to say she didn't know me, I would think some sort of discipline would be in order. Yes, it is very normal for children of this age to be embarassed by the mere exsistance of their parents, but that in no way excuses the behavior. To say something like "I do not know you" was said to cut into her momma's heart. It was said out of meanness. For the meanness, there should be some sort of consequence.

First step is to call them on it. Different parenting styles handle this differently. Some take the approach of 'you hurt my feelings' some do the 'how would feel' some reduce to petty bickering, and some just say don't talk like that. However it is handled, it is brought to the child's attention.

BUT I think there should be more than 'talking to' in a situation like the one in the post. The child said what she said to be mean. She was emarassed, but that doesn't excuse her. For the mean-spirited intent behind her comment, I think the girl should have a direct consequence... like not going to the dance.

If you spend any time around girls of this age in a group setting, you will notice that these girls can be vicious! Usually there are one or two (in a group of 20 or so) who seem to be the 'queen bee' and more times than not, they tend to be the snarkiest. It seems that the only way some girls can become secure in herself is to cut down their 'competition'.

It has been my experience that the worst of these mean girls either have mothers who try to re-live their teen years through thier daughters or are completly oblivious that their 'angel' tears other girls into shreds with snarky-smart a$$-mean comments.

Last edited by rockinmomma; 01-29-2011 at 11:55 AM.. Reason: my spelling sucks
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Chicago 'burbs'
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If either of my daughters did that (11 & 13y/o) they would be punished. I tell my girls often that no matter what anyone else does, whether you are embarassed or angry, you are always responsible for your OWN behavior!
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: NC
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I'm with you 100%!!!!!

I have a constant stream of pre teen (11-13) yo girls in our home, and while I don't know how they act at THEIR home, in mine, its yes/ no ma'm/sir and other polite language.

They all know I will call them out on their language and behavior. And won't tolerate ANY snarkiness within my earshot (they can complain about grown ups ALL they want in my DD's room with the door shut!)

And even with the strictness, they all seem to want to be HERE.

Funny how that works... I"m the 'mean mom' in the neighborhood, yet they all want to be here. Guess I'm not as mean as I seem (to DD anyways LOL)

I think the kids LIKE knowing the rules and what they can and can't get away with. I know they sneak into the family room and watch tv on the big tv after were in bed. they think theyre getting away with something... LOL
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:34 PM
 
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I, too, is the 'mean momma'. The kids gravitate here too. With my DD's sports team, I am the preferred chaperone. My oldest's friends want to move in and have me be their momma.

I don't tolerate the mean spirited behavior and have called out any child within earshot.... even if they have a parent nearby who doesn't say anything. No age is exempt. I do not outwardly try to draw attention to any child's misbehavior, but I am not going to ignore it in order for them to save face.

I think there are too many excuses for misbehavior now-a-days. Yes, there may be reasoning for the misbehavior, but that doesn't excuse the behavior. It is time to step up and teach kids that just because they have an excuse (embarassed, tired, hungry, hot, cold, mad, sun-spots) that doesn't make it okay to behave like a brat. I also have a child on the autism spectrum..... even he is held accountable for his behavior.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Denver area
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Interestingly, my DD (now 20 and away at college) and her friends were typically here also. I was most likely the more strict mom in her group of friends. I was also the mom that drove everywhere because we had a van and because I didn't mind doing it when other moms either couldn't or didn't care to. I have no doubt that these "mean girl" cliques exist but I have to say I never saw any of that type of behavior nor do I remember it from my high school years. Yes, there were the "in" groups but I've never witnessed the level of "meanness" that people talk so much about. I don't believe for a minute that all girls or groups of girls behave like this. More typical, IME is girls being "bffs" for awhile, then getting all upset or dramatic over something ridiculous and hating each other, only to go back to being "bffs" until the next time someone buys the same earrings or crushes on the same boy.

The things that preteen girls say to their moms is not always meant to "cut them"....and often times, they regret it as soon as it's out of their mouth. It's venting - albeit in an inappropriate way. Also...kids this age don't always think of their parents as humans with feelings to be hurt. It just doesn't occur to them. It may need to be pointed out. I've had my DD tell me she hates me (and it hurt my feelings - and she did not do it in public) and while I have no doubt she felt that way at that moment, I did understand that it was said out of frustration for the situation and for the conflict of adolescence -growing up yet feeling powerless. The lesson for her, was that you cannot go through life telling people (even your mom) that you "hate them" everytime you are frustrated or feel powerless - it is more productive to find other ways to vent or try to figure out how to address the issue that has you feeling powerless. The point in discussing, is to get them to realize that you don't behave like this - not because you don't want to be grounded but because it isn't right nor is it productive.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
13,123 posts, read 17,674,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinmomma View Post
I, too, is the 'mean momma'. The kids gravitate here too. With my DD's sports team, I am the preferred chaperone. My oldest's friends want to move in and have me be their momma.

I don't tolerate the mean spirited behavior and have called out any child within earshot.... even if they have a parent nearby who doesn't say anything. No age is exempt. I do not outwardly try to draw attention to any child's misbehavior, but I am not going to ignore it in order for them to save face.

I think there are too many excuses for misbehavior now-a-days. Yes, there may be reasoning for the misbehavior, but that doesn't excuse the behavior. It is time to step up and teach kids that just because they have an excuse (embarassed, tired, hungry, hot, cold, mad, sun-spots) that doesn't make it okay to behave like a brat. I also have a child on the autism spectrum..... even he is held accountable for his behavior.
I agree with you if the parent does not want to break their bad habits , bygod I will amen sista !!!
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:25 PM
 
1,425 posts, read 3,525,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Interestingly, my DD (now 20 and away at college) and her friends were typically here also. I was most likely the more strict mom in her group of friends. I was also the mom that drove everywhere because we had a van and because I didn't mind doing it when other moms either couldn't or didn't care to. I have no doubt that these "mean girl" cliques exist but I have to say I never saw any of that type of behavior nor do I remember it from my high school years. Yes, there were the "in" groups but I've never witnessed the level of "meanness" that people talk so much about. I don't believe for a minute that all girls or groups of girls behave like this. More typical, IME is girls being "bffs" for awhile, then getting all upset or dramatic over something ridiculous and hating each other, only to go back to being "bffs" until the next time someone buys the same earrings or crushes on the same boy.

The things that preteen girls say to their moms is not always meant to "cut them"....and often times, they regret it as soon as it's out of their mouth. It's venting - albeit in an inappropriate way. Also...kids this age don't always think of their parents as humans with feelings to be hurt. It just doesn't occur to them. It may need to be pointed out. I've had my DD tell me she hates me (and it hurt my feelings - and she did not do it in public) and while I have no doubt she felt that way at that moment, I did understand that it was said out of frustration for the situation and for the conflict of adolescence -growing up yet feeling powerless. The lesson for her, was that you cannot go through life telling people (even your mom) that you "hate them" everytime you are frustrated or feel powerless - it is more productive to find other ways to vent or try to figure out how to address the issue that has you feeling powerless. The point in discussing, is to get them to realize that you don't behave like this - not because you don't want to be grounded but because it isn't right nor is it productive.
These 'mean girls' are more apparent in middle school than in high school. By the time they are in high school, there is more maturity. I would wager there are a few of these girls in every class. I am glad that you haven't experienced the phenomena.

Sure there are situations where a child will say 'I hate you' or some other comment while they are powerless/angry.... what if a girl says "that is sooo gaaaaay" to some other girl's new jacket. Is that acceptable because she is angry that that girl has a jacket like hers? Ohhh wait, that would be consitered wrong because it is not politically correct, no matter the age. These two comments could be said with the same flippant attitude. Both cut and both are mean.

I am happy that your DD has the personality that responds well to discussions. Not all little girls are have the same personality. Sure, venting is a release of anger, but if a little boy were to 'vent' his anger physically (stereotypical boy expressions) instead of verbally (stereotypical girl expressions) would the hurt he causes be handled with a discussion?

Words can hurt as much as a fist.
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Denver area
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Sorry - I think you are talking about 2 different situations - apples and oranges. The OP in the other thread said she and her daughter had been close and the daughter had typically been a respectful and obedient child. A hurtful comment or two at that age, does not make her a "mean girl"...It makes her a pretty normal pre-teen or young teen that does in fact need to adjust her attitude and behavior. Punishment is not always the most effective way to deal with it initially. If the attitude doesn't change then by all means do what it takes to change it.

Mean girls (or bullies in the male sense) are different than that IMO. Kids (girls or boys) who are mean or bullies have behaviors that should have been addressed long ago. Honestly, I saw more "mean boys" than "mean girls"...you know, the boys who threw bats or helmets on the ground when they struck out in Little League, the ones who believed they were so talented and if a game was lost it was someone elses fault. And whose parents actually believed this too and allowed or encouraged the behavior because they keep seeing $$$ in the future...The ones who dare to argue with the umpire/referee/teacher/coach....In fact everything was someone else's fault. Those are the kids who in my experience grow into being a bully. Those problems started long before adolesence and the parents fed it from an early age.

Last edited by maciesmom; 01-29-2011 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:50 PM
 
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no, one ore two comments do not maker a mean girl. But she said the comment. Shouldn't there be consequences for her behavior? At what point do you stop the discussions and give real world consequeces? When the disrespect is in public? When it expressed to a younger sibling? a grandparent? a teacher? When cuss/vulgar words are used. this is the parent's oppritunity to stop the behavior before it becomes a problem.

I do not think it is apples and oranges. It is a seedling to fruit. IMHO, a 11 yo who can disrespect her momma to the point where the momma feels she has done something wrong just for walking into a skating rink, the seedling has already been planted. This was not a "I hate you" said in the heat of an arguement about not being allowed to wear a short skirt as she stomps to her room. For a child to feel she can disrespect her mother, in public, in front of the church youth group, at 11 yo, this is not (IMHO) acceptable behavior.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Denver area
21,144 posts, read 22,135,031 times
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Never did I say it was acceptable behavior.

It didn't appear to be "in front of" the entire church youth group, but something said in passing. I don't know if the behavior was such that it needed punishing or not. I don't know the OP or her daughter. I guess, it all depends on whether your parenting goal is to teach you child how to handle themselves in life or whether your goal is to prove that you are in charge and to be respected or you will be punished. I guess I am confident enough that I am in charge that I don't need to find ways to prove that..Personally, my goal is to teach my child. I do expect to be respected along the way and I had no problem punishing when necessary...I just feel that sometimes a simple reminder is adequate since we have raised them to be respectful since they were babies.

Last edited by maciesmom; 01-29-2011 at 09:22 PM..
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