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Old 02-09-2011, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
121804, you said it well. I was going to say, in response to eastwesteastagain's post that The Greatest Generation raised the Baby Boomers, and we (Boomers) were supposed to be the original spoiled generation. There is no question we were the anti-war, draft dodging hippies of the late 60s/early 70s. So maybe our parents weren't perfect, either.
Agreed. I didn't mean to romanticize past generations' parenting. The challenges across generations change, social norms change, and there is "good" and "bad" parenting in every generation and no perfection anywhere, as far as I can tell.

My point in mentioning the Greatest Generation was that I use those life stories to remind myself that people can live happy productive lives without a lot of "stuff," as materialism was mentioned by several posters about why younger people today aren't out on their own as early as in the past. I think that's a life lesson worth carrying into the present time, at least IMO.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
There is nothing wrong with taking preventive measures but when a parent is over them like a hawk to the point that the kids feel this claustrophobic feeling looking over their shoulders because mom or dad are over them can be difficult. My wife used to check on who they go with or at what homes they go and visit, things like that. She would not take the kids all the way to school bus but let them walk on their own but still watching them from far away so the kids would still be on their own, take care.
I agree 100%!
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:54 AM
 
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[quote=Sgoldie;17770095]I thought about that statement "I wouldn't let my kids out of my sight because one never knows what pervert may snap them up".

I would have to say I felt the same way but instead taught my kids what to look for and do themselves (street smarts) if anything ever happened as I knew I couldn't be with them every second. They both came out of the hopper naturally independent, one excessively so, and seemed to initiate things from very early on on their own. For instance when my son was in first grade he insisted on doing the grocery shopping if we went to the store comparing labels and unit prices like I had shown him. (Funny to see his arms fully over his head pushing the cart which I wasn't allowed to touch) At sixth grade he approached the principal about getting a class mentor to teach about the stock market so he could start investing his own money as he worked in our business when he could. Our family environment was highly entrepreneurial and with a can do anything attitude. They were still pampered and loved and know how to take care of others.

I agree with this! I homeschool my kids. They are in my sight. YET, they can do their own laundry, stack wood, keep the woodburner going, cook supper, clean the house, etc... They do these things happily because they know that we will load up them and a bunch of their friends and take them to the sledding hill. They sled, we drink coffee in the car and laugh our butts off at their crashes. Bribery? Maybe :-) But life-skills, too. Finding fun, cheap things to do goes a long way.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
But if you look back a couple of generations, people back then just had the mortgage, one car per family was the norm, not two or three, and cars didn't have to be luxury cars with air conditioning and CD players and all leather seats, and a typical car loan was 2 years not 6.

No cable - television was free, no internet, no cell phones with unlimited text messaging. Vacations were more likely a camping trip, not a luxury cruise and 4-star hotels.

People cooked at home, and toys weren't $600 game players with $60 games to go with them.
Right!!!!!
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:27 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
Agreed. I didn't mean to romanticize past generations' parenting. The challenges across generations change, social norms change, and there is "good" and "bad" parenting in every generation and no perfection anywhere, as far as I can tell.

My point in mentioning the Greatest Generation was that I use those life stories to remind myself that people can live happy productive lives without a lot of "stuff," as materialism was mentioned by several posters about why younger people today aren't out on their own as early as in the past. I think that's a life lesson worth carrying into the present time, at least IMO.
It seems the next generation is not happy with the present one thoughout history. The comment that the Greatest Generation produced the hippies and other negatives mentioned is not necessarily bad parenting. Cultures do change with each generation because the young generation wants something different.
Also, the Greatest Generation went through a Depression and a World War. What to do? As a group they wanted to make sure they give their kids all they did not have. What happened? Well, kids also got spoiled and got so much to the point that they had the time to revolt against many cultural norms. The older generation had a great sense of value in hard work and perhaps they tried to instill that on their baby boomers who did not like it with all the comforts they now had. When a society has enough comfort in lives they have more time to look around and and think about social changes. To me that is what history has shown with societies that become rich and powerful.

The same happens even today. There are parents that had a hard life of deprivation and spoil their kids with giving them everything they can, the same with the Greatest Generation.

However, there seems to be a consensus that generation were close and together in some form or another made it through through the hard times during a depression and the devastation of a World War. The attitudes were diffferent also.

I am aware that governments are not to fully be trusted. But to some degree it is something similar like with our own parents that are not perfect. We may not totally agree with the way they handle things but we still love them and support them as parents. The same with our nation. Pearl Harbor got hit. What happened. That generation got together and overcrowded the recruiting stations. Did the same happened with 9/11? No. This is a different generation that does not see self sacrifice as past generation. Is that bad?, take care.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
121804, you said it well. I was going to say, in response to eastwesteastagain's post that The Greatest Generation raised the Baby Boomers, and we (Boomers) were supposed to be the original spoiled generation. There is no question we were the anti-war, draft dodging hippies of the late 60s/early 70s. So maybe our parents weren't perfect, either.
Parents are not suppose to be perfect nor are their children. It's impossible & to a large extent, utterly boring & unhealthy if that is what one is striving for.

Most of us can say to our kids "Back when I was your age, we didn't have cell phones."

Ok. Got it. What does it prove? What does it teach?

A parent can teach their child how to manage money & time with a cell phone. Cell phones, the internet...those are all part of our society now. Of course the rampant changes are hard to keep up with, sometimes not necessary to keep up with. "My kid doesn't have a cell phone b/c I don't have the $$ for it" or "My kid doesn't have a cell phone b/c I didn't have one when I was his age" is not a learning tool. It doesn't teach the child a thing.

A parent may be vehemently against some things, such as cell phones. And the point I was trying to make was how it is INSTILLED in the home; the VALUES of the home; the manner in which it is approached; has a far greater impact then telling your child "No, b/c I am a single parent & you will have to work" or "No, you don't need it b/c I didn't need one".

Growing up, there were no WalMarts, internet, DirectTV, Wii, cell phones, laptops, iPods, iPads, 24 shopping places, ATMs on every street corner. Now there is. Pros & cons to it. A parent has all the right to decide what their children will be exposed to; it's just hoped that the parent understands the manner in which they tackle the issue will be a life lesson, not denying or giving in to the actual material item.

We all want our kids to have good morals, work ethic & discipline. And there are some good things that came out of 50s, 60s, & 70s....

I also see many of the great things coming out of things today: FINALLY accepting that not every child learns the same way; ability to show our children different things in life via multimedia.

The debate could keep going & in all honesty, it is a good debate b/c it keeps the lines of parenting open.

Are there some issues today? Heck ya. Where there some in 1952? Yes. Are there things to take from our parents & grandparents...yes, both good & bad. To expect your child to conform to parenting from the 80s is really not fair to them.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:10 AM
 
3,842 posts, read 9,243,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I am aware that governments are not to fully be trusted. But to some degree it is something similar like with our own parents that are not perfect. We may not totally agree with the way they handle things but we still love them and support them as parents. The same with our nation. Pearl Harbor got hit. What happened. That generation got together and overcrowded the recruiting stations. Did the same happened with 9/11? No. This is a different generation that does not see self sacrifice as past generation. Is that bad?, take care.
Not the same thing. Pearl Harbor cannot be compared to 9/11. And, actually, the military did indeed see a large increase in their enlistment numbers. My husband & I were in the military when 9/11 occurred.

There was also a mandatory draft & many times, those in the military had no choice. You are forgetting that major bit of information.

The world is bigger. The opportunities are larger. Innovations has occurred.

Morals & values can still be instilled while our children see the world as it is, not constantly reminding them how Grandpa Joe walked to school & back, both uphill.

Would I be disappointed if my child didn't run up to a recruiting station during a national disaster? No. I would be sad if my child showed no empathy towards it though. Just b/c a child doesn't have something or is constantly being reminded of sacrifice doesn't mean they will flourish as an adult.

My dad got out of the AF in the late 60s so he wouldn't have to go to Vietnam. He is a great man nonetheless.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,227,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
I also see many of the great things coming out of things today: FINALLY accepting that not every child learns the same way; ability to show our children different things in life via multimedia.

The debate could keep going & in all honesty, it is a good debate b/c it keeps the lines of parenting open.

Are there some issues today? Heck ya. Where there some in 1952? Yes. Are there things to take from our parents & grandparents...yes, both good & bad. To expect your child to conform to parenting from the 80s is really not fair to them.


I agree whole-heartedly. It's the never-ending quest for how to instill values and problem solving for the challenges that our kids face now. There are things worth taking from both past and current strategies and things that are best left behind from both, IMO. I think there is something to be said for hanging on to some of the values of the past but figuring out how to apply them to now. I agree it is not effective parenting to say "When I was a kid, I walked uphill in the snow both ways..."
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:40 AM
 
Location: I'm around here someplace :)
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Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I've asked this question before in other forums from the "Nature" perspective and generally am told the reason kids just don't seem to grow up is because of the economy, difficulty in getting a good job, ect.

But I wonder if the problem is really rooted the "Nurture" part of the equation. Is it possible that all the overprotective, anxious and/or "helicopter parenting" that is so common today grows young adults that don't have the ability (or even desire) to be independent?

I was thinking about this after a converstation with my wife about how things are not like when we were kids (not too long ago, in the 80's and 90's); she argued it's just too dangerous to raise kids today like we were raised. I got to thinking... Is it really that more dangerous? Crime rates have been declining for years, safety equipment is much improved and if anything, child saftey has gone too far in the "safe to the point it's boring" direction. My poor kids... playgrounds these days would have made me yawn. I remember playing in a park that had a retired tank and airplane parked in the playground; my kids today get a 6 ft tall soft plastic slide, 100% rounded edges, rubberized ground cover and NO imagination or adrenaline stimulation. No wonder they don't ever want to go to the park.

No one seems to let their kids just wander or explore; all my kid's friends have parents that will only allow them to do supervised "playdates", kids are given cellphones but still not allowed out their parent's sight and video games seem to be the preferred activity.

So, by trying to keep our kids safe have we unwittingly created a generation of dependant adults that can't go it on their own? whatdayathink?
I agree with what your wife said, but I don't think that topic has anything to do with the problem.
Why are there so many young adults who, as you said, haven't grown up? Because their parents haven't! hey, the youngest group of young adults aren't called "Echo-Boomers" for nothing!!!

While there are certainly plenty who do not fit the echo-boomer stereotype, with those who do it isn't because of over-protection, it's a matter of too much exposure to those in the older generation who grew up (using that term loosely) who a) were never taught the concept of living within one's means themselves, and b) have always believed in instant-gratification.

First, it results in seeing no negativity in debt, and being irresponsible; and second, it results in never being satisfied.
So figure- a young adult isn't going to "make it in the world" if he has been taught he never has to settle for anything less than perfection, must always have what he wants, and must always have it now.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,756,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
Not the same thing. Pearl Harbor cannot be compared to 9/11. And, actually, the military did indeed see a large increase in their enlistment numbers. My husband & I were in the military when 9/11 occurred.
It is the same thing in this sense. Our 'home' was attacked. The cultural difference was there. Per capita, you are telling me we had more people joining the military for 9/11 than after Pearl Harbor? I do not deny that there was increase after 9/11. I was in the military when 9/11 happened also. I just retired last year after 32 years of service. I have said and I just told my boss yesterday that I do have great appreciation to the young men and women that do enlist knowing there is a war going on. It sounds as I have made the claim no one had the sense of duty when 9/11 happened. It seems you exaggerated my comment. I am aware that this generation has good and great young men and women. I do have at home a very beautiful song by Johnny Cash in tandem with a video that says "Every generation has its heroes" and we do have them not only in the military as featured in the video. They are out there doing great things in society like the young men and ladies that volunteer shoulder to shoulder with me as Court Appointed Special Advocates on behalf of neglected and abused children and as my fellow volunteers with the Sexual Trauma and Assault Response Services helping as rape and sexual assault victim advocates.

There was also a mandatory draft & many times, those in the military had no choice. You are forgetting that major bit of information.
Yes there was a mandatory draft but I am talking at the initial stage when our home was attacked. Also, I do not know I agree but I venture to guess that per capita I do not think young men fled to other countries to avoid the draft in those days than today. I may be wrong. Let me know if you think I am.

The world is bigger. The opportunities are larger. Innovations has occurred.
What are you saying with this? I totally missed your point. I do not see how it relates to the point in discussion. Please explain.

Morals & values can still be instilled while our children see the world as it is, not constantly reminding them how Grandpa Joe walked to school & back, both uphill.
I have not denied moral cannot be instilled as the world is. Did I say I constantly reminded my children of Grandpa's example? No. Again and exaggeration. I talked to my daughters about my dad or my mom I will not deny it. However, I did not nag them abot it as you seem to imply. It is good to show children as positives figures about present day heroes and nothing wrong with examples of grandpa, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther Kings, etc.

Would I be disappointed if my child didn't run up to a recruiting station during a national disaster? No. I would be sad if my child showed no empathy towards it though. Just b/c a child doesn't have something or is constantly being reminded of sacrifice doesn't mean they will flourish as an adult.
I am talking about an overall cultural differences and what may be the positives and negatives on them. Again, you seem to see my comment to an exaggerated degree. I believe I covered the same points above. Do I tell my kids the type of life I lived in Mexico? Of course I do. Did I tell them everytime I saw them they did not appreciate the better life they had. No, I did not because I do remember how it felt to be a child to. That is what parenting is all about. If had told me kids go to your room and read a book that to me will only make them hate reading. Other parents do and it may have worked with them. I simply think it is a better method to instill on them the love for reading. We did by reading to them every time in bed before they wen to bed. So no, constantly as you said is nagging and I do not think nagging is a positive method. It can work on others though. No method is perfect.

My dad got out of the AF in the late 60s so he wouldn't have to go to Vietnam. He is a great man nonetheless.
So he got out because because that was his way to survive or because of his views of the war or something else, OK. He did what he thouhg he had to do and I am no one to judge him at all. Again, you can see a cultural difference. The attitude of the nation towards that unpopular war in combination with the attitude of the older generation shape how people are. I am glad he is a great man, good for you. I am not saying your dad regrets doing that but others may have and also later in life became great dads too. Whatever we do in our youth that may be later seen as bad, wrong, immature, etc. decision does not brand as a failure for life does not mean we cannot achieve greatnes later in life. Even criminals have later in life become great people that have raised above the rest, take care.
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