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Old 02-09-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,757,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia 914 View Post
I agree with what your wife said, but I don't think that topic has anything to do with the problem.
Why are there so many young adults who, as you said, haven't grown up? Because their parents haven't! hey, the youngest group of young adults aren't called "Echo-Boomers" for nothing!!!

While there are certainly plenty who do not fit the echo-boomer stereotype, with those who do it isn't because of over-protection, it's a matter of too much exposure to those in the older generation who grew up (using that term loosely) who a) were never taught the concept of living within one's means themselves, and b) have always believed in instant-gratification.

First, it results in seeing no negativity in debt, and being irresponsible; and second, it results in never being satisfied.
So figure- a young adult isn't going to "make it in the world" if he has been taught he never has to settle for anything less than perfection, must always have what he wants, and must always have it now.
I read a very interesting book entitled "The Death of Grown Up". It covers how our culture has changed and become more naricissitic and self centered. Now, for those that take offense to that I am not saying everybody today are that way. Nor am I saying that there were no people like that in my generation or generations before I. However, that seems to be peculiarities in each generation, good and bad and I happen to agree with you, take care.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:53 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,235,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I've asked this question before in other forums from the "Nature" perspective and generally am told the reason kids just don't seem to grow up is because of the economy, difficulty in getting a good job, ect.

But I wonder if the problem is really rooted the "Nurture" part of the equation. Is it possible that all the overprotective, anxious and/or "helicopter parenting" that is so common today grows young adults that don't have the ability (or even desire) to be independent?

I was thinking about this after a converstation with my wife about how things are not like when we were kids (not too long ago, in the 80's and 90's); she argued it's just too dangerous to raise kids today like we were raised. I got to thinking... Is it really that more dangerous? Crime rates have been declining for years, safety equipment is much improved and if anything, child saftey has gone too far in the "safe to the point it's boring" direction. My poor kids... playgrounds these days would have made me yawn. I remember playing in a park that had a retired tank and airplane parked in the playground; my kids today get a 6 ft tall soft plastic slide, 100% rounded edges, rubberized ground cover and NO imagination or adrenaline stimulation. No wonder they don't ever want to go to the park.

No one seems to let their kids just wander or explore; all my kid's friends have parents that will only allow them to do supervised "playdates", kids are given cellphones but still not allowed out their parent's sight and video games seem to be the preferred activity.

So, by trying to keep our kids safe have we unwittingly created a generation of dependant adults that can't go it on their own? whatdayathink?
ABSOLUTELY.

Do yourself a favor and watch Ken Burns' latest documentary, "The War." In it are hours of first-hand accounts of what American soldiers had to endure while fighting in Europe and the Pacific.

About halfway through watching it, something occurred to me: When these people were doing extraordinary things, they were 18 to 20 years old.

Meanwhile, some of our friends have 18 and 20 year olds who literally do not know how to wash a load of clothes or cook a meal. My children are 16, 14, and 12, and we have expected them to clean their rooms, do chores, cook meals, do laundry, mow the grass, and a host of other duties.

Do they do a perfect job? No. But they know how to function. Yet I'm amazed at how many of our friends don't ask their children to do anything at all. I mean, what happens when the kid goes to college and suddenly has to wash clothes, cook, balance a checkbook and go to class on time? Then what?

Don't get me wrong. We love our kids and don't treat them like indentured servants. But the job of a parent is to deliver the child to adulthood fully capable of surviving. And parents who hover over their children are incredibly remiss. They are simply doing their kids no favors. So when I hear sob stories from parents who have 27 year olds living at home with them, unable to hold down a job, etc. etc., they get no sympathy from me.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Silverthorne, Colorado
884 posts, read 1,464,772 times
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I'm only 18 and in college myself, but I have to say...

Nurture. I think? You'll figure out when you read below.

I think that if your young adult children are having a hard time getting a good footing in life then it is okay to help. After all, today it's nearly impossible for a coming-of-age child to make it entirely on their own straight out of high school, especially if they go to college and pay for it completely by themselves. It's even difficult for college grads - a friend of mine graduated this past May with an architecture degree from a great school and still hasn't found a job, so her parents are providing for her and in turn she's doing what she can to find employment so she'll be able to support herself.

I believe that as long as your children are showing that they're putting effort into whatever they're doing, it would be wise to help them in their time of need until things work out.

But this is simply the opinion of someone who's basically still a kid.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:51 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,235,124 times
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Best saying I've ever heard: "Never cripple your children by making their lives easy."
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:25 AM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,729,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
.....When these people were doing extraordinary things, they were 18 to 20 years old.

Meanwhile, some of our friends have 18 and 20 year olds who literally do not know how to wash a load of clothes or cook a meal. My children are 16, 14, and 12, and we have expected them to clean their rooms, do chores, cook meals, do laundry, mow the grass, and a host of other duties.
EXACTLY! Part of the reason that young adults are not making it is that they grow up so bubble wrapped that their parents do not teach them to :

-use a knife because they might get hurt

-cook because they might get burned

-do laundry because they might make a mistake

-go to a public restroom alone when they are in middle school because they might get molested

-play on their own because the parents have to be around to supervise

-make their own social plans

-pump their own gas when they start driving

-go on a date without parents "spying" on them

-get their own lunch together when they are in high school

My 6th grader has a friend who does not know how to use a knife to cut his food.

My 9th grader has a friend who's mother STILL makes all his social plans. He has another friend who cannot make his own lunch. Both are nice boys but have been taught NOTHING about how to take care of things on their own.

My 11th grader has friends who have drivers licenses. They are at least 16, some are 17. Their parents put gas in the car because they think their son is "to young" to do it on his own.

Another parent waited outside the movie theater for their son when he was on a date. They were afraid that he would not be able to drive the girl back to her house and then get back home on his own.

The same boy is not permitted to attend overnight trips with the wrestling team if the parents can't stay overnight also. His mother once asked my what I put in my son's food bag for tournaments. What? He's 17, he packs his own food.

How do any of these kids have a chance of being independent as young adults? A 15 year old should be able to make his own social plans. A 12 year old should be allowed to use a steak knife. A 17 year old should be allowed to attend a supervised overnight trip.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:00 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,757,647 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
EXACTLY! Part of the reason that young adults are not making it is that they grow up so bubble wrapped that their parents do not teach them to :

-use a knife because they might get hurt

-cook because they might get burned

-do laundry because they might make a mistake

-go to a public restroom alone when they are in middle school because they might get molested

-play on their own because the parents have to be around to supervise

-make their own social plans

-pump their own gas when they start driving

-go on a date without parents "spying" on them

-get their own lunch together when they are in high school

My 6th grader has a friend who does not know how to use a knife to cut his food.

My 9th grader has a friend who's mother STILL makes all his social plans. He has another friend who cannot make his own lunch. Both are nice boys but have been taught NOTHING about how to take care of things on their own.

My 11th grader has friends who have drivers licenses. They are at least 16, some are 17. Their parents put gas in the car because they think their son is "to young" to do it on his own.

Another parent waited outside the movie theater for their son when he was on a date. They were afraid that he would not be able to drive the girl back to her house and then get back home on his own.

The same boy is not permitted to attend overnight trips with the wrestling team if the parents can't stay overnight also. His mother once asked my what I put in my son's food bag for tournaments. What? He's 17, he packs his own food.

How do any of these kids have a chance of being independent as young adults? A 15 year old should be able to make his own social plans. A 12 year old should be allowed to use a steak knife. A 17 year old should be allowed to attend a supervised overnight trip.
What you just wrote brought many memories when I was the First Sergeant in Korea from 2001 to 2003. I ran a company of 180 Soldiers. I will say this, often when I went to my room after long hours I cursed so many parents for the lack of parenting they did with the Soldiers I had. Most were very good kids but they simply lacked a lot of very simple skills in life that parents in my generation taught us.

I believe that many of the very simplest things in life may look so obvious to many of us but in reality we learned them. They did not necessarily came to us naturally.

I still remember one time an experience I had with my driver. He was a very good young man. He had a good heart and was always trying to do his best. We used to talk a lot as he drove me to places. He shared how he was raised. Oh, before I finish the story I also mention that the Commander was a vietnamese that was brought from Vietnam at a very young age so his parents raised him with the work ethic asian cultures have. I was raised part of my life in the US and part in Mexico. My parent were born in Mexico. We both shared a lot of similar work ethic being raised by parents of an older generation and from other cultures.
He would often pull his hair and ask me "First Sergeant! What is wrong with this Soldiers! Why do they look so lost in so many basic chores and skills!? I do not understand!"

Now, back to the story. My driver told me how he was raised as a latch key kids. Both parents working hard. He was not complaining. He was just sharing how he grew up. Well, one day he took me to the next camp for the weekly battalion meeting. We did not have a cleaners at our camp so I brought with me my duffle bag with most of my uniforms to the other camp's cleaners. They were about 6 uniform sets. I told my driver to please remind me to drop off the uniforms before we go back to our camp after the meeting. He the offered to drop them off for me while I am in the meeting. I said thanks and that it was OK. We went back to the camp and later in the day I asked him for the cleaners receipt. He very inocently told me he did not have one. I asked him why? He, again, very inocently said he did not ask for one. I was shocked and asked him if he realized that if the cleaners lost my uniforms I did not have any proof they had them and I would loose about $600 worth of uniforms. Again, he just looked at me with this very inocent look and said "Oh, that is true". Then I realized he did not have parents that send him to the store when he was little like I had mine to buy whatever and before I left my dad or mom would scream "Don't forget to get a receipt and the correct change!" As little as this sounds we learned those things when we are children. I went to the Commander and told him many of these Soldiers parents did not really taught their kids much while there were out there both working, a single mom tired all day at work and not much interaction with the children, mom and dad simply in their own world, etc. and that is why all these Soldiers lacked so much in social skills and in many simple skills in life. He realized he and I were raised by a different type of parent.

Another example, humorous though, is one I was told when we were touring China. The tour guide told us that when they were introducing birth control they were offering couples condoms. They gave them to them. Well, one time a wife and the husband went back to the doctor and told him the husband was gettin sick. They made sure the husband had a condom before sex. The doctor was confused why they blamed the condoms for the husband getting sick. He asked them to explain step by step what they did. The wife was making soup with the condom and gave it to the husband before they planned to have sex! Everybody in the bus laughed. To us it may seem like a very obvious thing to do but you cannot assume it is an automatic assumption people understand simple things like that. To me that is why young adults have are the way they are. They lack so much in social skills, survival skills, and on top of that parents shelter them in so many different ways that deprive them from learning, talking risks, experimenting, etc, take care.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:50 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,235,124 times
Reputation: 45820
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
What you just wrote brought many memories when I was the First Sergeant in Korea from 2001 to 2003. I ran a company of 180 Soldiers. I will say this, often when I went to my room after long hours I cursed so many parents for the lack of parenting they did with the Soldiers I had. Most were very good kids but they simply lacked a lot of very simple skills in life that parents in my generation taught us.

I believe that many of the very simplest things in life may look so obvious to many of us but in reality we learned them. They did not necessarily came to us naturally.

I still remember one time an experience I had with my driver. He was a very good young man. He had a good heart and was always trying to do his best. We used to talk a lot as he drove me to places. He shared how he was raised. Oh, before I finish the story I also mention that the Commander was a vietnamese that was brought from Vietnam at a very young age so his parents raised him with the work ethic asian cultures have. I was raised part of my life in the US and part in Mexico. My parent were born in Mexico. We both shared a lot of similar work ethic being raised by parents of an older generation and from other cultures.
He would often pull his hair and ask me "First Sergeant! What is wrong with this Soldiers! Why do they look so lost in so many basic chores and skills!? I do not understand!"

Now, back to the story. My driver told me how he was raised as a latch key kids. Both parents working hard. He was not complaining. He was just sharing how he grew up. Well, one day he took me to the next camp for the weekly battalion meeting. We did not have a cleaners at our camp so I brought with me my duffle bag with most of my uniforms to the other camp's cleaners. They were about 6 uniform sets. I told my driver to please remind me to drop off the uniforms before we go back to our camp after the meeting. He the offered to drop them off for me while I am in the meeting. I said thanks and that it was OK. We went back to the camp and later in the day I asked him for the cleaners receipt. He very inocently told me he did not have one. I asked him why? He, again, very inocently said he did not ask for one. I was shocked and asked him if he realized that if the cleaners lost my uniforms I did not have any proof they had them and I would loose about $600 worth of uniforms. Again, he just looked at me with this very inocent look and said "Oh, that is true". Then I realized he did not have parents that send him to the store when he was little like I had mine to buy whatever and before I left my dad or mom would scream "Don't forget to get a receipt and the correct change!" As little as this sounds we learned those things when we are children. I went to the Commander and told him many of these Soldiers parents did not really taught their kids much while there were out there both working, a single mom tired all day at work and not much interaction with the children, mom and dad simply in their own world, etc. and that is why all these Soldiers lacked so much in social skills and in many simple skills in life. He realized he and I were raised by a different type of parent.

Another example, humorous though, is one I was told when we were touring China. The tour guide told us that when they were introducing birth control they were offering couples condoms. They gave them to them. Well, one time a wife and the husband went back to the doctor and told him the husband was gettin sick. They made sure the husband had a condom before sex. The doctor was confused why they blamed the condoms for the husband getting sick. He asked them to explain step by step what they did. The wife was making soup with the condom and gave it to the husband before they planned to have sex! Everybody in the bus laughed. To us it may seem like a very obvious thing to do but you cannot assume it is an automatic assumption people understand simple things like that. To me that is why young adults have are the way they are. They lack so much in social skills, survival skills, and on top of that parents shelter them in so many different ways that deprive them from learning, talking risks, experimenting, etc, take care.
Very good post. Rep for you. And thank you for your service to our country.

A lot of our fellow parents are a bit astonished that our children respond to instructions, say, "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir." They may not do a perfect job of vacuuming carpets or mowing grass, but they know what to do. And that's half the battle.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,423 posts, read 16,699,470 times
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My son is 19 and his dad's family, where he lived, did have him do chores and mow and cook. Which is good since it looks like basic skills are often lacking in that age group. But when he was 14 he got a hundred dollars a month for clothes. He has all the latest electronics and is very socially active with friends but somehow spent over 300 a month on fast food before the money ran out. He has now left on his mission, as he joined the Mormon Church, and while I have reservations about it, I'm hoping he gains some maturity and financial sense. He decided he was going on this mission and didn't plan to go to college right away so since he didn't have to finish high school, quit doing homework, going to school and dropped out. Nearly everyone in the family tried to get through but to this day he still doesn't see the problem.

I was raised by parents who survived the Great Depression and the war, and wanted thier kid to have all they missed. Nice safe well shielded world. I didn't know about some of the major events of the 50's until I read about them later. Not the polio epidemic, not McCarthy. I never had to ask for anything. If they knew I wanted it, it came. I wasn't extravagant about my wants and still am not but if all the neat toys today were around them I'm sure I would have had them.

Reality was like a big brick wall and that is what I hoped my son would not have to discover. But maybe that is how it works. I think too many kids today were raised by the children of my parents and while they may have not set out to raise their kids that way, they emotionally drift back to mom and dad.

I've essencially lived poor most of my life since and I think benefited from it and what I have is there for use and value, rather than "to have", and my regret is that I wasn't able to pass that on. But I couldn't afford to raise him and he needed a decent father figure so those things were more important. But given the world to come and his current lack of priorities and maturity, I'm sure life will end up teaching him. I suspect most of his generation will or is learning that lesson now.

Funniest story I ever heard was from and ex room mate. Her brother brought his girlfriend to dinner and she wanted to help. She was told to "wash" the lettice and was gone a long time. The lettice looked rather sad. She said she hoped she got all the soap off of it, and she did use hot water.

Nobody laughted at her since she was just clueless. But as she stuck around and eventually married him they did teach her to cook and do laundry (she didn't know how to do that either) and other life skills and became a part of the family.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:48 PM
 
144 posts, read 244,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I actually think that my children have been "under parented", and maybe that was to their advantage. I was divorced, broke, and raising four kids alone, not planned that way, that is for sure. I went to work, school, and my second job, my kids had to take care of themselves, and be responsible for themselves, and each other. I guess I was lucky, they all went to school, and turned out very responsible. I do think that things are tougher now, then they used to be, but the cream will rise to the top. My kids are doing okay, they are all working. I don't know why some kids go bad...or have problems...maybe it is "over parenting"...my kids pretty much knew that they were not going to have a car, unless they worked for it, going to college was a privledge, they knew it, and appreciated it. I have a friend, who has a son, age 30, living at home, who says he cannot find a job...none of my kids live at home with me...they all work...I think that we owe it to our children to not make their lives easy, mine know they could come home if they needed too, but they better get a job, or have a plan, or Mama would get them doing volunteer work 40 hours a week until they found a job.
I can relate. My mother was a divorced single mom working over 40 hrs. to keep roof over me and my brothers head. We did get in our share of trouble with lack of parenting, but we also realized we werent getting anything unless we were willing to work for it.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,889,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
He has now left on his mission, as he joined the Mormon Church, and while I have reservations about it, I'm hoping he gains some maturity and financial sense. He decided he was going on this mission and didn't plan to go to college right away so since he didn't have to finish high school, quit doing homework, going to school and dropped out. Nearly everyone in the family tried to get through but to this day he still doesn't see the problem.
Regardless of what you may think of Mormonism, rest assured that the vast majority of young men and women who serve LDS missions come home changed people. Your son will likely have more self-discipline, maturity, confidence, and financial sense when he returns than you ever thought possible.
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