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Old 02-23-2011, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Not all "technical" trades are "low skill" though...

Just for kicks, I started looking at "mechanics"....there are auto mechanics, diesel mechanics, HVAC mechanics, aircraft mechanics....some of those are quite specialized and can make pretty darn good money. While some colleges do offer those courses - there are also specialized trade schools that cater to those careers. Some of those jobs have more earning potential than some careers that require college. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about...not someone just graduating and hanging out the the local Grease Monkey changing oil for minimum wage and calling themselves a mechanic. If I had a child who had a mechanical aptitude and an interest in becoming an aviation mechanic, I wouldn't have any trouble spending his college fund on a specialized trade school instead of insisting he attend a 4 year college and being burdened with classes he had no interest in if he knew exactly what he wanted to do and had a clear and reasonable idea of how he wanted to get there.
I don't really think that's what the argument is about. I have said myself, most of the vocational classes are done through the CCs these days. And you might be surprised to see what you need to study to be an aviation mechanic; it might be a BS degree.

My brother-in-law was not considered "college material". He went to the Vo-Tech high school in his hometown, Omaha, NE, to study electronics. He did so well, and liked it so much, he went on to a local college (now the U of Nebraska at Omaha, but the U of Omaha at the time) which had a 2 yr electronics technician program of some sort. Again, he did so well he decided to pursue his BSEE. That's where he stopped. He graduated from high school in 1964, just FWIW. This kind of stuff has been going on for a long time.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Denver area
21,134 posts, read 22,102,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't really think that's what the argument is about. I have said myself, most of the vocational classes are done through the CCs these days. And you might be surprised to see what you need to study to be an aviation mechanic; it might be a BS degree.

My brother-in-law was not considered "college material". He went to the Vo-Tech high school in his hometown, Omaha, NE, to study electronics. He did so well, and liked it so much, he went on to a local college (now the U of Nebraska at Omaha, but the U of Omaha at the time) which had a 2 yr electronics technician program of some sort. Again, he did so well he decided to pursue his BSEE. That's where he stopped. He graduated from high school in 1964, just FWIW. This kind of stuff has been going on for a long time.
Some but not all. And I did research it a bit before posting.
And again, I'm not against college - not sure why you seem to think that. I just think there are some people and some situations that can succeed in other ways - and there isn't any shame in that. Or anything wrong or "less" about it. And certainly - sometimes, after some time doing something, one sees the need to enhance their education to get ahead (true even for those with college degrees). Nothing wrong with that either.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Some but not all. And I did research it a bit before posting.
And again, I'm not against college - not sure why you seem to think that. I just think there are some people and some situations that can succeed in other ways - and there isn't any shame in that. Or anything wrong or "less" about it. And certainly - sometimes, after some time doing something, one sees the need to enhance their education to get ahead (true even for those with college degrees). Nothing wrong with that either.
I don't know why you seem to think that I think (whew) that you're against college. I am simply expressing my views like every one else on this thread. I think kids should be encouraged to be all they can and want to be. A lot of kids "don't know what they don't know" when they're 18 and making these decisions for a lifetime. While there's not much that can't be reversed, it can be a much longer road if you get off on the wrong track early on.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:51 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,197 posts, read 50,480,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
i'd be curious what age group the "lots of successful people" you know that didn't go to college. again, i know it's possible, but it's generally the exception, not the norm. if you start your own business, maybe. but if the business fails, you're back to square one, and you'll have to come up with another idea. many places just won't hire people without the degree. i worked in IT Consulting for years, and had a very good friend who knows 100x more than any of the people I worked with. But, my company wouldn't even interview someone without a bachelors degree. Is it right? No. But it just is.
This is a good point. I did not go to college, and most people in my office probably have no idea about this, and some would likely be upset to learn it. There are a few of us who learned our jobs by doing them, and there is no specific degree for what I do anyway.

However, that's not happening any more. You need the degree these days just to get in the door of most places, whether or not you actually learned any useful skills while obtaining that degree.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,717 posts, read 59,563,864 times
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The college degree is the starting point. It says that you made the extra effort. It does not necessarily say that you are a better candidate. However when a business receives hundreds of resumes, they have to establish some criteria for sorting them out. One way to narrow down the choices is to establish a policy that you will not consider anyone who did not make the extra effort and demonstrate academic prowess by going to college and getting a degree.

Do you have to go to college to do what most engineers do? Not necessarily. However if you take a hundred applicants who went to college and got an engineering degree and a hundred who did not, you are going to find a much larger percentage of people who are actually able to do the job well amongst those with an engineering degree. Although there are exceptions, a large number of people who did not go to college did not go because their grades were poor, or they lacked motivation (yes I am aware that there are other reasons people do not go to college so you do not need to blow up, however those other reasons are exceptions). Most employers do not want to weed through a hundred applicants hoping to find those exceptions. A college degree does not make a better candidate for any job but it does mean that the candidate probably had decent grades, probably worked hard, probably is somewhat motivated and was willing to put in four extra years to try to advance their knowledge. While some phenomenal candidates will get missed by requiring college degrees, no one has time and few have the ability to weed out those phenomenal candidates through the interview process.

Further, I can tell you that in my experinece, a very significant majority of our clerical staff memebrs who went to college are far mor motivated and competent than the staff memebrs who did not. These people tend to get promoted more frequently not becuase they went to college, but becuase of their motivation, interst, competence, and work ethic. Beacause of this, if I am considering two similar candidates and one of them went to college, I am very much inclined to give greater consideration to teh one who went to college (however I will also consider that they are not likely to be happy in a clerical position for long and will move on).
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Further, I can tell you that in my experinece, a very significant majority of our clerical staff memebrs who went to college are far mor motivated and competent than the staff memebrs who did not. These people tend to get promoted more frequently not becuase they went to college, but becuase of their motivation, interst, competence, and work ethic. Beacause of this, if I am considering two similar candidates and one of them went to college, I am very much inclined to give greater consideration to teh one who went to college (however I will also consider that they are not likely to be happy in a clerical position for long and will move on).
I am not in a position to hire anyone right now, but I've noticed the same thing.
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