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Old 03-01-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,792,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
<3
Is that boobs?
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,954,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
No I don't think the author is saying that at all. We all know that breastfeeding has health benefits, especially in the short-term. Really who doesn't know breast is best.
Did we read the same article? She is totally saying that breast milk and formula are essentially equivalent:

As Wolf points out, we are treating "Breast vs. Formula" as though it were "Safety vs. Danger" -- even though we know that millions of American babies have been brought up on formula and are doing just fine.

Are they doing as outstandingly fine as they could be if only they'd been breast-fed from day one through day 365? Pretty much, yes.

Wolf knows that this is heresy, but after poring over countless studies, she realized that, aside from a measurably lower risk of GI infections, the differences between breast- and formula-fed babies could not definitively be traced back to what those kids were drinking. It's quite possible that the breast-fed babies enjoyed some advantages simply by being parented by health-conscious moms.


I honestly just don't believe that it's the right thing to equate them, and I think that is precisely what this author is claiming, and I think that is what we as a population say when we say that it's "just a personal choice". There are plenty of people who decide not to breastfeed at all or who don't put in very much effort because they believe that it doesn't really matter, because they have been convinced that breast milk and formula are essentially equivalent. I don't think it is doing anyone any favors to just pretend that is true, just so that someone won't feel "guilty". Yes, there are many women who really wanted to breastfeed and it didn't work out for them despite their best efforts. People may say they feel guilty, but if they tried in good faith, with the best information they had at the time, then maybe they are mislabeling their feelings. Maybe what they feel is failure or regret or anger or something else. Here is a relevant excerpt from the classic "Watch Your Language" by Diane Wiessinger:

Quote:
Most of us have seen well-informed mothers struggle unsuccessfully to establish breastfeeding, and turn to bottlefeeding with a sense of acceptance because they know they did their best. And we have seen less well-informed mothers later rage against a system that did not give them the resources they later discovered they needed. Help a mother who says she feels guilty to analyze her feelings, and you may uncover a very different emotion.
Moderator cut: Please only quote two or three sentences of a copyrighted work. Lengthy quotes are not allowed.

I think that by pretending that breast milk and formula are essentially equivalent, that we are taking information out of the hands of women in a misguided effort to spare their feelings. When they find out they've been deceived, I hope that they won't feel guilt, but they will instead feel anger for being misled.

Last edited by JustJulia; 03-02-2011 at 05:22 AM..
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:37 PM
 
4,044 posts, read 5,944,751 times
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I sincerely feel that modern societies have been placing a disproportionate amount of attention on this ridiculous "breast-feeding/bottle-feeding" war - and sometimes I wonder whether that is just a mere distraction from the much more ardent, IMO, issue of what our children will be putting into their bodies as "food" FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, well long after the suckling stage has ceased.

Why is it that there isn't an equal amount of controversy/war/wagging of the finger over what THE MAJORITY of children get to eat on a daily basis in modern societies? Why is it that we are so busy pointing fingers at "bottle vs. breast" when no one blinks at the idea that "children's food" necessarily equals "junk food" in America.

I am yet to go to any BDay party or any sort of event for children where tasty, appealing, good food (yes, as in "gourmet"!!, just like the adults enjoy often) is served to children.

Why is it that we reserve the nastiest foods for children under the excuse that "this is what they like it and some pizza, fried/preserved nuggets, cup cakes with chemicals and sodas is not gonna kill them once in a while"?
No one notices how often these "once in a while-s" happen and how they become a habit.
No one notices what passes as "healthy snack" in day cares, preschools etc. Nilla Wafers or whatever you call those? Are you kidding...?

How about we switch our obsession to THIS war - 'cause I will be on the baricades there! It might serve us all much better in the long run than the obsession over that one first year of boob or no boob.

To specify: I am a mother who breastfed until about the 7th/8th moth for both kids, simply because I was able to and found it relatively handy. Had I not been able to, I would not have lost too much sleep over it.

I DO lose sleep over daily AND TASTY nutrition, cooking from scratch, etc - now that my children are well-past the boob stage.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:52 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,364,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I sincerely feel that modern societies have been placing a disproportionate amount of attention on this ridiculous "breast-feeding/bottle-feeding" war - and sometimes I wonder whether that is just a mere distraction from the much more ardent, IMO, issue of what our children will be putting into their bodies as "food" FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, well long after the suckling stage has ceased.

Why is it that there isn't an equal amount of controversy/war/wagging of the finger over what THE MAJORITY of children get to eat on a daily basis in modern societies? Why is it that we are so busy pointing fingers at "bottle vs. breast" when no one blinks at the idea that "children's food" necessarily equals "junk food" in America.

I am yet to go to any BDay party or any sort of event for children where tasty, appealing, good food (yes, as in "gourmet"!!, just like the adults enjoy often) is served to children.

Why is it that we reserve the nastiest foods for children under the excuse that "this is what they like it and some pizza, fried/preserved nuggets, cup cakes with chemicals and sodas is not gonna kill them once in a while"?
No one notices how often these "once in a while-s" happen and how they become a habit.
No one notices what passes as "healthy snack" in day cares, preschools etc. Nilla Wafers or whatever you call those? Are you kidding...?

How about we switch our obsession to THIS war - 'cause I will be on the baricades there! It might serve us all much better in the long run than the obsession over that one first year of boob or no boob.

To specify: I am a mother who breastfed until about the 7th/8th moth for both kids, simply because I was able to and found it relatively handy. Had I not been able to, I would not have lost too much sleep over it.

I DO lose sleep over daily AND TASTY nutrition, cooking from scratch, etc - now that my children are well-past the boob stage.
Didn't you know that they had organic Nilla Wafers?
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,954,304 times
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Before I had kids, I was pretty into dog rescue, and believe me, I had plenty of people saying the same kinds of things to me then - that there are other, more worthy causes, that I should be spending my time helping people, not dogs. Everyone has their own issues that they are passionate about solving or advocating for. The quality of food for children, particularly that served in schools, is certainly an issue. I have heard stories in the news recently about it. Other people are passionate about things like BPA in plastics, or toxins in materials toys are made out of. Some people are concerned about the amount of physical activity children are getting, or the amount of outdoor time, or imaginitive play time. Some people are passionate about veterans issues. Some people are passionate about the homeless. Some people are passionate about recycling. Some people want to save the whales. There are many, many issues out there that different people take on as their own personal passions, their own ways to try to make the world a better place. And yes, some causes are more life and death than others. But that doesn't mean that someone else's cause is unworthy of any attention. My passion at this time in my life happens to be breastfeeding. I am not going to dispute that there are many, many other worthy causes to be passionate about too.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Denver area
21,138 posts, read 22,112,687 times
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There is a vast difference between "not optimum" and actually detrimental to one's health.

Last edited by JustJulia; 03-02-2011 at 05:23 AM.. Reason: Removed quoted material (copyrighted).
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,445,520 times
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Hmmm...Breast fed 2 of my 3. My first for a year. My second for 9 months and my 3rd (who is 4 months old) is totally bottle fed (no BM at all). My 2nd child was the more sickly out of the 3. My life is MUCH easier (and better) bottle feeding my 3rd... hands down. I choose to bottle feed because i just did not like breast feeding... I know I could have done it succsessfully...just didn't want to. I like my sleep. Sleep = happy momma. I don't care what people think. I know what works for us...period. If I would have bottle fed my first child I would not have breastfed any of them at all...Been on both sides of the fence...

So...is breastmilk superior? Wasn't for my 2nd. So far, I don't see a difference in my first (BF baby) and my 3rd (bottle fed baby) at all. Both are very healthy and very happy. My 3rd is by far the easiest one... Sleeps the best, eats the best and constantly smiles so big you can hardly see her eyes...and has not had a single health issue to date.

I guess it is only a 'war' if you let it get to you... Who cares really? As long as baby is eating and healthy...and mom is happy.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,954,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
There is a vast difference between "not optimum" and actually detrimental to one's health.
That's semantics, and depends on your frame of reference. If your frame of reference is formula, then breastfeeding is extra, bonus, special. If your frame of reference is breastfeeding, then formula is... what? What do you call it when you increase your risk for multiple health factors? Breastfeeding is the standard, the biological norm. Formula increases risk, breastfeeding doesn't decrease it.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:44 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,529,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
That's semantics, and depends on your frame of reference. If your frame of reference is formula, then breastfeeding is extra, bonus, special. If your frame of reference is breastfeeding, then formula is... what? What do you call it when you increase your risk for multiple health factors? Breastfeeding is the standard, the biological norm. Formula increases risk, breastfeeding doesn't decrease it.
It's not cigarette smoke, that's for sure.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:45 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,725,457 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
Yes, there are many women who really wanted to breastfeed and it didn't work out for them despite their best efforts. People may say they feel guilty, but if they tried in good faith, with the best information they had at the time, then maybe they are mislabeling their feelings. Maybe what they feel is failure or regret or anger or something else.
What, are you trying to tell me how I felt about it now? Maybe "they" feel all of those things. Plus guilt. Seeing as it never happened to you, nor by the looks of it to the woman who wrote the article you quoted below, what makes any of you who haven't tried and not been successful the ultimate authority on how a person might feel about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
Quote:
The mother who does not breastfeed impairs her own health, increases the difficulty and expense of infant and child rearing, and dismisses one of life's most delightful relationships. She has lost something basic to her own well-being.


This makes me unbelievably angry. "Dismisses one of life's most important relationships". Really? "Dismisses"? If that language, whether you realize it or not, is not aimed at making women feel guilty for not being successful at breastfeeding then I don't know what would be.

I'm sorry, but what a condescending bunch of codswallop.

I'm all for breastfeeding and it's inherent benefits. I would like to have done it. But how dare people insinuate that I am some kind of misled sheep that does not know my own mind and have "lost something basic to my well-being". Aaargh. Don't tell me that and then tell me people aren't trying to make mothers feel guilty. I'm not buying it.

How about not talking down to people about this issue? Perhaps that's the thing that irks everybody, not the actual facts.
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