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Old 03-02-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,148 posts, read 22,139,461 times
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It also is making the assumption that if a mother chooses not to breastfeed, she is either not educated enough OR she is willing to make unhealthy choices for her child. Those are the only 2 options -either you need more education or you just don't care enough. You don't find that condescending?
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,959,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Man, I just don't think you get it at all. I and other women who "tried and failed" do not need you or anybody else to keep harping on about the benefits of breastfeeding which are obvious to anyone who can read and which formula will never equal. The point is, for whatever reason, it doesn't work for everybody. That's it. No amount of continuously brow beating mothers is going to make it work.

I think the crux of the matter is that, underneath it all, people who have had no difficulty breastfeeding cannot fathom that for some people it is not possible. You really really think that the mother did not try hard enough. And that's where the guilting of other mothers comes into play. Because no matter how you put it, the thing you most convey to them is "you could have done it if you'd just tried harder, and now because of you your baby is going to suffer."

Have you ever tried making a newborn do something he/she does not want to do? Perhaps you're talking to the wrong half of the partnership.
I am aware that it doesn't work for everybody. I never said that it did. You claim that anyone who can read knows about the benefits of breastfeeding, but I don't think that's true, and specifically, I think that the article of the OP was saying that breastfeeding really doesn't matter or make any difference. I also believe that many people today, even on this thread, believe that. I also don't understand why you think I am brow beating anyone. True, I am not coddling anyone and telling them it doesn't matter. Is that brow beating?

There are many challenges that people may face with breastfeeding, and a great many of them are caused by our culture and our ignorance about breastfeeding. Every week I hear stories from mothers who were given incorrect information and bad advice, from peers, from nurses, from doctors even. A lot of the breastfeeding difficulties that mothers experience today could have been prevented. Not all of them certainly, but a great many. And so education is the best front for change IMO, not "brow beating" individual mothers, which is not something that I think I do.

I feel that biologically, almost all mother/baby pairs could breastfeed given the right circumstances. Of course there are always exceptions, on both mother's and baby's part, and in the past these babies would have died without formula or cow's milk (or a wet-nurse). But we would not have survived as mammals if we naturally had so many problems nursing our young as we see today. I think that the problems we encounter today are mostly man-made or cultural, not biological. People usually do the best they can with the information they have, so the key is to increase the quality of the information they are working with. Instead though, we usually prefer not to say anything for fear of offending, and the misinformation spreads.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:00 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,369,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
It also is making the assumption that if a mother chooses not to breastfeed, she is either not educated enough OR she is willing to make unhealthy choices for her child. Those are the only 2 options -either you need more education or you just don't care enough. You don't find that condescending?
Yes, correct. However, people who recognize this are the very people who don't feel guilty about their choices. These people are not the ones being targeted. It is the mothers who feel guilty who are targeted.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,959,678 times
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Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Because you follow it by saying there are those who "you feel" don't try "hard enough". What is hard enough? And why is it up to you to decide that? And why, if persons children are healthy and happy and thriving does it need to matter to YOU?
I didn't say it was up to me. I just said that not everyone tries their best to breastfeed. Not everyone tries at all, in fact. I understand that many women try their best and are still unsuccessful, but the fact still remains, that not all formula feeders fall into that category.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 34,677,768 times
Reputation: 20198
...snip snip snip to this here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
I have, however, approached breastfeeding strangers to tell them "good for you", but I can't see what would be so wrong about that. I am just trying to counteract some of the negative comments that breastfeeding mothers often get when out in public.
(snip snip snip the whole end off too)

This one part of your post, right here, has got to be THE most condescending piece of pure, unadulterated horsepucky I've ever heard in my life.

It is JUST as much "none of your business" to approach breastfeeders to tell them they're doing a good job, as it is "none of their business" for criticizers to approach breastfeeders to tell them they're doing a bad job. If I was a breastfeeding mother and someone approached me to ensure that I know, that my behavior is being observed and noted enough that someone would tell me they think it's awesome, I would be SO creeped out that I'd probably call security on them.

And you understand the word "just" is the first half of JUSTIFY. If you have to justify what you're doing, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. The words "just," "only," and "simply" are used most often by people doing inappropriate things, and attempting to justify their behaviors by blaming other people.

Horsepucky. And malarchy. And unmitigated gall, as my mother would say.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,959,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Interested in it or not, that's what you're doing. Intentionally or not. I really don't think in this day and age people are misinformed. To the contrary.
You want to tell me that everyone knows that breast milk and formula are not essentially equivalent. And yet, I feel like the only person on this thread who is making that statement. Or is it something that we all know, but we dare not say, particularly not to a mom who used formula? You can't say breast is best, but it really doesn't make any difference. So which is it?

Quote:
In fact, I just saw a report on the news this morning that women are feeling so pressured to breastfeed at all costs that those that cannot are turning to the internet to buy unscreened and unregulated breastmilk that has the potential to actually harm the baby. It's gotten so out of hand that women would rather put their babies at risk than admit to not breastfeeding.

So all of this fervor, albeit well intentioned, is driving some mothers to expose their infants to potentially toxic milk. Which is what happens when you guilt mothers into doing what you want them to do regardless of whether it's actually in the child's best interest.
Actually, milk sharing is an interesting topic, one that is probably more appropriate for its own thread. But I support milk sharing and would seek out a milk donor rather than use formula if those were my options. Keep in mind that the milk donors typically undergo blood tests for screening just as blood donors do, that milk donors are not paid so there is no financial incentive to donate, and that they are feeding that milk to their own babies as well. There is always some risk, but the population of folks who donates breast milk is pretty low risk IMO.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Where we enjoy all four seasons
20,799 posts, read 8,537,281 times
Reputation: 15883
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
...snip snip snip to this here:
(snip snip snip the whole end off too)

This one part of your post, right here, has got to be THE most condescending piece of pure, unadulterated horsepucky I've ever heard in my life.

It is JUST as much "none of your business" to approach breastfeeders to tell them they're doing a good job, as it is "none of their business" for criticizers to approach breastfeeders to tell them they're doing a bad job. If I was a breastfeeding mother and someone approached me to ensure that I know, that my behavior is being observed and noted enough that someone would tell me they think it's awesome, I would be SO creeped out that I'd probably call security on them.

And you understand the word "just" is the first half of JUSTIFY. If you have to justify what you're doing, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. The words "just," "only," and "simply" are used most often by people doing inappropriate things, and attempting to justify their behaviors by blaming other people.

Horsepucky. And malarchy. And unmitigated gall, as my mother would say.


Great post...I totally agree
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,959,678 times
Reputation: 2620
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
It also is making the assumption that if a mother chooses not to breastfeed, she is either not educated enough OR she is willing to make unhealthy choices for her child. Those are the only 2 options -either you need more education or you just don't care enough.
I guess you are essentially right about that. I do pretty much agree with that statement. I think that most of the people who don't care about breastfeeding, don't care because they have been led to believe that it doesn't matter. I think that the point of the article in the OP was that it doesn't matter. And since I believe that to be untrue, I feel that education is important. I don't want for people to be making decisions based on misconceptions. I feel that what we are debating about right here, is the issue of whether or not it matters.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:25 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,369,225 times
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There seem to be four sides to this and not two sides.

1. Pro-breastfeeding
2. Pro-bottlefeeding
3. Hold my hand
4. I am going to do what I want to do. Butt out.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: BK All Day
4,480 posts, read 8,327,999 times
Reputation: 4288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
I guess you are essentially right about that. I do pretty much agree with that statement. I think that most of the people who don't care about breastfeeding, don't care because they have been led to believe that it doesn't matter. I think that the point of the article in the OP was that it doesn't matter. And since I believe that to be untrue, I feel that education is important. I don't want for people to be making decisions based on misconceptions. I feel that what we are debating about right here, is the issue of whether or not it matters.
So, if it matters SO much. When you walk down the street, can you automatically pick out the people who where breast fed vs formula. After all it effects their life so much as you are saying...
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