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Old 03-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,094 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTess View Post


I must have been listening to his radio show when he was talking about parents paying for college when a caller complained about their parents not supporting them through college like other parents do. It seems like the parents were gambling on passing grades.
I swear if I read one more snarky comment about "college kids these days" I'm going to shoot my computer!
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:19 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,094 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Undoubtedly, there are kids out there who would somehow find a way to get through college on their own. There always have been and always will be.

Andrew Carnegie found a way to rise from being a penniless immigrant child to being the owner of the largest steel company in the world.

What I take issue with are those who believe this is a typical outcome. I have the following questions for you:

1. What was a semester's tuition when you went to school?

2. What was a semester's cost for the books you needed?

3. What were computer fees? (this is a "loaded question")

4. What were your rental expenses?

5. What did you earn per hour or per week?

If you analyze these factors honestly today when tuition for a semester of tuition begins at $3500 for a single semester a public institution (or $7000 per year) , I think you will observe that your idea about "working your way through college" has become an unrealistic pathway for all, but maybe the top 5% most dedicated students.

Working my way through school in 1977 was very realistic, but only because tuition was $350 a semester (one-tenth of what is today). On the other hand, my wages were reasonably decent. I recall earning about $3.50 an hour which in those days could create a minimal existence for someone who was determined to economize.

What you and others seem to miss either accidentally or deliberately is that wages haven't begun to keep pace with educational costs.

I almost think a better discussion would be: "Why do so many parents today claim you can work you work through college when its a near impossibility to do so without any financial support"?
I personally speculate its one of the following:

1. The parent never went to college and does not have an appreciation for the real value of a college degree.

2. The parent truly can't afford to pay for college or provide meaningful financial assistance, but can't bring themselves to admit that.

3. Worst of all, the parent can afford to provide meaningful financial assistance to a child, but has made a deliberate choice not to do so and now seeks a means to rationalize their beliefs so they can avoid feelings of guilt.

I personally am unwilling to take the chance that my kids would somehow find their way through college without my financial support.
+1! There's not much more to add to this, except to say "I agree". I will add that I think deliberately not saving for college in order to qualify for more financial aid is not only sleazy, it may backfire. Generally, middle class kids kids qualify for loans, not grants, and work-study jobs.

For those who feel they can pay their kids' way through scholarships, it's not that easy. I remember going through this with our oldest daughter. My husband was all gung-ho for her to get a scholarship to pay for college. The poor kid was getting really distraught b/c he was so fanatic about this. Finally I asked him, "What are you going to do if she doesn't get enough to cover it?", and "Why is it so important to you to get someone else to pay for her college?" She did get enough in scholarship money to cover about 1/4 of the cost and we paid the rest. The second one did much the same, though when she transferred to the U of CO, she lost her scholarship from the other school.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:21 PM
 
120 posts, read 210,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I swear if I read one more snarky comment about "college kids these days" I'm going to shoot my computer!
How is it snarky. I don't know any college kids yet because my son is the oldest grandson on both sides of the family.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:24 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,094 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTess View Post
How is it snarky. I don't know any college kids yet because my son is the oldest grandson on both sides of the family.
I took it to mean a snide comment about getting good grades. The implication on this thread has often been that college students spend all their time drinking on "Mommy and Daddy's" dime, and barely get passing grades. I'm fed up with it. My kids and their friends worked hard in college. They partied a bit, but probably no more than non-college students of their same age.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Denver area
17,125 posts, read 12,460,410 times
Reputation: 19491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I took it to mean a snide comment about getting good grades. The implication on this thread has often been that college students spend all their time drinking on "Mommy and Daddy's" dime, and barely get passing grades. I'm fed up with it. My kids and their friends worked hard in college. They partied a bit, but probably no more than non-college students of their same age.
How is that different than the implication that parents who don't feel responsible or guilty about not paying their kids way are irresponsible, uncaring or lying?

TBH - most people are somewhere in between - both for college students and for parents. I feel that it is not an obligation parents have but a nice thing to do but that's been called out any number of times. Why is it necessary to have judgement either way? Can't we agree that what works for each family might be different? College students whose parents pay their way are not ALL slackers on mommy and daddy's dime (though some might be) AND parents who don't pay for all or part of their adult child's choices in education are not ALL irresponsible, uncaring or lying about their financial status (though some might be)?
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:55 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,094 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
How is that different than the implication that parents who don't feel responsible or guilty about not paying their kids way are irresponsible, uncaring or lying?

TBH - most people are somewhere in between - both for college students and for parents. I feel that it is not an obligation parents have but a nice thing to do but that's been called out any number of times. Why is it necessary to have judgement either way? Can't we agree that what works for each family might be different? College students whose parents pay their way are not ALL slackers on mommy and daddy's dime (though some might be) AND parents who don't pay for all or part of their adult child's choices in education are not ALL irresponsible, uncaring or lying about their financial status (though some might be)?
I guess it's different b/c it's a different issue. I don't believe I've ever said parents who don't pay are any of the above. Lots of people go on and on derisivly about "Mommy and Daddy" as if the college kids are irresponsible louts who are partying 24/7 and getting horrendous grades (at which point they would be kicked out, anyway).

I do think some people have embellished how much they have "worked their way through" college. If you live at home, that's getting some help. If you're getting free food at home, that's more help. It costs about $1000/mo for a student to live away from home, either in the dorms or in an apt. If the parents buy the student a car, that's certainly "help"; if it's a new car, that's about $20+K in help. Ditto buying computers, clothes, books, etc. Likewise, I think some parents are embellishing the same. They don't seem to realize that helping with the above is helping defray college costs.

I also feel that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to work full time and go to school full time, and do justice to either. If you don't do justice to the job, you'll get fired, and if you don't do justice to school, you'll get kicked out. Tuition at the University of Colorado is ~ $7K/yr for arts and sciences, and approaching $10K/yr for engineering and business. People can talk all they want about doing the first two years at CC (cost of ~$3K/yr here in CO, plus living costs), but there are still the last two years and that's if all the credits both transfer and are applicable to the major. In some cases that route can take even longer. A minimum wage job pays $7.50/hr, $15,000/yr if you can work full time, and that's a big "if". Even at $10/hr, full time work is $20K/yr.

I'm certainly not one who says everyone has to do it "my way". I do feel sorry for kids whose parents "throw them to the wolves" so to speak, and require them to pay the whole cost. If the parents are middle class or higher, this means the kids have to borrow money, b/c it's another fallacy that anyone can earn enough money to pay for college these days, and "full ride" scholarships are few and far between.

I do think the strategy of not saving so you'll qualify for more aid is couter-productive; you'll just qualify your kid for more loans. Expecting someone else to pay for all the college expenses, via scholarships, is, IMO, eithically challenged if you can afford to bear some of the burden.

ETA: I have read of some research that work beyond 20 hrs/wk is detrimental to grades. That would mean $150/wk gross, at a minimum wage job, about $100/wk take home.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
5,408 posts, read 3,393,184 times
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ETA: I have read of some research that work beyond 20 hrs/wk is detrimental to grades. That would mean $150/wk gross, at a minimum wage job, about $100/wk take home.

I don't doubt it. I knew a lot of people in college who struggled to finish school work because they were working 30+ hours a week. My roommate freshman year ended up being kicked out because he was working as a department manager at a grocery store 40+ hours a week. It was too much for him to juggle both.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:08 PM
 
2,775 posts, read 2,732,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersfan View Post
Grew up in a regular middle class town and everyone I know paid for college between some combination of student loans, work and scholarships....

When did this become the parents responsibility?
Since forever. If you don't push then they won't go. It's pretty much your responsibility to prepare your child for the world and a college education is part of the prep. Start saving.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:29 PM
 
22,237 posts, read 13,053,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipoetry View Post
Since forever. If you don't push then they won't go. It's pretty much your responsibility to prepare your child for the world and a college education is part of the prep. Start saving.
I think it's a fairly recent concept. At least for the Middle Class. No one from the Greatest Generation expected their parents to pay for college! Their parents were still recovering from the Depression. The GG knew if they wanted college it meant they worked their way through and/or used the G.I. Bill. Many of them didn't even go to college. It was serve in the war, come home, get married, start working.

The GG's parents worked their way through. (And something like Teacher's College didn't take four years.)

The Boomers looked for scholarships, worked, G.I. Bill for the vets, took out student loans.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:58 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,094 posts, read 60,710,459 times
Reputation: 20207
I'm a boomer. I didn't have a scholarship, though I went to a state university. I worked. My parents paid the majority of my expenses.

Enough of the "kids these days" stuff. They're no different than we were.
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